Ask HN: Do you still use UML? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#21

Post by segmondy » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 11:20 AM UTC

Yes I do. When you have a team of developers with different model of how the system should work or works, it's usually a recipe for disaster. By modeling, we get to unify our thoughts and idea of the system.

When starting out a project, I tend to lean more towards well labeled conceptual diagrams. I will also use activity diagram, sequence and state diagrams.

While I have often read about people designing class diagram before hand, then writing or generating code. I never use class diagram before code is written. I use class diagram to document an existing system.

It's a tool, if you are willing to be flexible and realize it for what it is, then it's useful.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#22

Post by dmitripopov » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 11:20 AM UTC

Svan wrote: post #17

I do. UML class diagrams can help you turn real world business objects into model and think about dependencies and relationships of entities. I would say that it is the best tool to model software. Sequence and activity diagrams can help you design and document a process. A picture is sometimes worth hundred words and this applies to UML as well.

Sure, pictures are great for communication. But is UML required? A lot of teams that I observe go with arrows and boxes on a whiteboard, and everything is clear nonetheless.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#23

Post by eksemplar » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 11:23 AM UTC

I do, quite a lot actually.

Originally it was mostly because it was the default setting in my Enterprise Architect tool, but it's proven more useful than Archimate (and other notations) because people without architect knowledge understands it much better.

On the business side it's mainly the system integrations, dependencies and information flows that are of value and you could honestly do them in Word if you wanted. Because it's very easy to build upon it, it's also easy to turn the business specs into something I can hand to an actual developer or use as a common language when talking features and requirements.

I wouldn't use UML if I was doing the systems engineering from requirement specs handed to me, and it is very rare that we use more than 10-25% of its full functionality, but it has enourmous value when you are trying to get future system owners to understand their own business processes and what they actually need from their IT.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#24

Post by dmitripopov » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 11:23 AM UTC

_nalply wrote: post #20

I still think in use cases but without the goofy graphics. I just make a Markdown bulleted list then give the use cases each a name and a short description.

Old habits die hard :) I always start a new project with actors and use cases, but without any diagrams.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#25

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 11:23 AM UTC

qznc wrote: post #5

I'm teaching it. It feels increasingly out of date. Tool support has stagnated for years on Linux. Modern features like lambdas are not really supported.

> Modern features like lambdas

"Modern" as in "Introduced to programming languages 35 years before the invention of UML, finally turning up in Java 20 years after the invention of UML"?

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#26

Post by mhd » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 11:25 AM UTC

In recent times, about on the same level as ERDs for databases. So mostly as a quick top-level sketch when designing something (mostly on paper), not really kept up to date when the code/model changes. Goes along with getting away from rigid class models in general, and for UI classes, the relationships are a bit more self-evident.

I do miss Booch's fluffy clouds a bit, though.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#27

Post by dmitripopov » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 11:27 AM UTC

kaio wrote: post #19

Yes, but not in the formal sense. And i don't get why agile and proper documentation should not go Hand in Hand. There are components and class Diagramms that are invaluable for me when i'm joining an existing code base. Even if they are not up-to-date everytime. State and sequence diagrams are really cool to discuss dynamic flows and identify potential logic holes. UML-like diagrams are way better then to come up wi…

Time limits, I guess. It's the only reason not to create good documentation. If you fail to deliver on time there's no need in good project docs. More like a chronic desease.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#28

Post by qwertyuiop924 » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 11:28 AM UTC

never have, never will.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#29

Post by cageface » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 11:28 AM UTC

Not exactly UML but I find rails-erd can be helpful to understand a data model, particularly if I'm trying to come up to speed on an existing codebase. It has the very large benefit of automatically staying in sync with the code.

https://github.com/voormedia/rails-erd

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#30

Post by elsurudo » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 11:33 AM UTC

UML is too heavy and rigid.

I use my own subset/version of UML, which uses a simplified "grammar", and allows you to express basically only the following:

- Class with attributes - Parent/child relationship - One-to-one relationship - One-to-many relationship - Many-to-many relationship

If I have some other need (rare), then I improvise. Usually I'm the only one who looks at these, but if a client or someone else needs to, the language is simple enough to understand that I can explain it in a few examples/sentences.