Programming is boring • Hacker News Board

Re: Programming is boring

#61

Post by tomc1985 » Fri, Nov 04, 2016, 9:37 PM UTC

rezashirazian wrote: post #55

tomc1985 wrote: post #43

This times a thousand. I love programming but I want it to be boring. Boring means no stress, attainable deadlines, repeat ability, the ability to walk away, and the ability to tell these 10-hours-a-day hacks to fuck off. Boring means 5-nines reliability without a devops team because the design was simple, elegant, and most importantly worked. Boring means you're able to get it right the first time. Boring means bein…

You just described the fixed mindset to a T. https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/01/29/carol-dweck-mindset...

How?

I've seen this chart and it has very little to do with what is described above. My point isn't that people should reject challenges, or to push back unnecessarily when confronted with pressure, or resist deadlines. The point is that you optimize your environment, methodology, tool usage, workflow, designs for simplicity, and that when you've done so it grants a level of control and predictability over one's work that it would appear you guys think is unattainable.

The above mindset embraces challenges by controlling for their parameters, and when confronted with a challenge too large you break it up until the pieces are something that one can assert control over. If that's still too much then you start shaving off requirements, and if that's still too much then yes, you might have to dive in and power through it. But that's where the boring mentality saves you: "diving in" and "powering through it" become more like a light swim than a sprint or marathon. Plus, when the code is simple and predictable its very easy to make estimates and then you can give yourself a larger deadline than you need.

Obstacles are confronted and plowed through -- but again this is not as difficult because the system is simple enough that most of it can be held in one person's head. When that fails, though, a little bit of creativity can get one out of a bind.

Effort... well you got me there. Less work is always better. Smart work, not hard work. If you are working hard, step back and think for a minute, because you are doing it wrong and you should probably optimize. There are very few scenarios for which this rule doesn't apply.

I don't see how my assertions have anything to do with feedback and criticism, other than to say that there is not as much in the bugs department because the boring system generally works. How one handles feedback has little to do with the other components.

It should also be noted that my mentality DOES involve a lot of questioning management, but that is because management desperately needs questioning. When a cabal of socializers and non-technical soft-power types try to run a technology-centered business, they require a lot of course correction so that development can continue unhindered and not get distracted with silly little initiatives (or whatever the third-party enterprise sales hacks walked through the door with this week)

Re: Programming is boring

#62

Post by kylec » Fri, Nov 04, 2016, 11:41 PM UTC

rietta wrote: post #21

I'm 34 years old and have been programming since I was 14. I loved it from day one. I still love it. Even after tens of thousands of hours, two CS degrees, and hundreds of projects, I still am still amazed that I get to get up every day, go to my office in the basement, and can literally type into existence complex systems. I love it. I love the problem solving and making stuff work. I get frustrated with people from…

I love the part where I type complex systems into existence. The part where I have to figure out the complex systems other people have typed into existence, not so much.

Re: Programming is boring

#63

Post by stuaxo » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 12:50 AM UTC

Writing something that is neat and and understandable is not boring.

It can be challenging and frustrating to get to that point, but it is pleasing once it is done.

Of course, that moment doesn't last for long at all before ascending the next hill.

Re: Programming is boring

#64

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 2:04 AM UTC

adambard wrote: post #18

huangc10 wrote: post #6

Truth but unlike other professions, throughout the rise of the internet, github, what-have-you, we, programmers have been able to counter the boringness and move to other opportunities in the industry. For example, someone who wrote test hardware code in embedded C, can move towards full software iOS development which is at two ends of the tech industry. The opportunity produces excitement and the further attainment…

> On the other side of the spectrum, a pilot who flies a Boeing 777 will not be able to easily switch to flying an Airbus 330. This sounds super dubious, I feel like you fell down on this analogy. I mean, they probably have some different controls and systems, but you can probably just run co-pilot for a few flights to get acquainted and then be good to go (leaving out the fact that most commercial planes essentially…

[deleted]

Re: Programming is boring

#65

Post by inimino » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 2:08 AM UTC

gandolfinmyhead wrote: post #10

People who say programming is boring belong to one or more of the following groups - people who haven't explored the concept enough, which may be a symptom of a larger issue possibly and most likely the one below - people who are just in for the money and are trying to convince themselves otherwise - people who don't know how to use atomic concepts to make more interesting concepts because they lack creativity and im…

How do you know that? Have you exhaustively categorized the full range of experience of programmers?

Re: Programming is boring

#66

Post by spynxic » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 2:21 AM UTC

travv0 wrote: post #53

kzisme wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the exact same way I'm still very new in my career - I often hear co-workers say "The last thing I want to see/do when I go home is a computer" I'm the exact opposite of that. I work full time as a programmer - go home - do more things on the computer or work on tech related things. Maybe since I'm younger I feel this way, but I ~really~ don't think like my mind will change.

I'm the same way. I wouldn't want to go home and do what I do at work, but I love programming things that I choose to program.

"I wouldn't want to go home and do what I do at work, but I love programming things that I choose to program."

This statement here is what has kept me a good distance away from developer positions. I love to come up with programs, study them generally, and even /potentially/ develop a new branch of mathematics with which to frame my ideas BUT I can't bring myself to write code for cash (unless the program is something I came up with personally and just happens to be worth something to someone else.. but even then I dislike the added stress of selling a hobby project).

tl;dr: I like to program BUT my consideration of having fun doesn't involve production-ready code. (In fact, I'm not sure what would make code production-ready [cleansing user inputs(?)], so perhaps it already is.)

Re: Programming is boring

#67

Post by spynxic » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 2:37 AM UTC

"You don’t create “possible problems” of the future, you don’t pigeonhole the solution in to some tool you fancy learning and working with; that’s called over-engineering -- ..and keep it simple. That’s what being professional means."

The author goes as far as making an analogy between doctor:chest-pain as programmer:program-features to argue the dangers of acting unprofessional but I'd argue that always acting professional can lead to insufficient solutions in the long run.

Creating "possible problems of the future" is often what keeps me on track in the present. Often times I will finish developing a feature prior to fully writing its foundation so as to see how the feature might influence the foundation. It seems a bit ironic but I'd claim over-engineering is what keeps a code-base flexible to change.

But perhaps the type of development I enjoy is unprofessional. It would make sense in explaining why I haven't made a dime on my code.

Re: Programming is boring

#68

Post by agentultra » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 2:41 AM UTC

iduy wrote: post #42

agentultra wrote: post #29

Programming is beautiful! I'm writing an authorization expression parser that generates a Validation applicative functor (whose errors form a semi-group, so cool!). The users will only notice that the error messages when they fail authorization will be descriptive of what they're missing. The developers love it because they get a rich, descriptive language. And it makes me happy because it's actually not a lot of cod…

Sorry I don't understand what you built, but it seems interesting, can you please explain it in plain English.

Sure!

The problem I need to solve is to add an authorization system to our stack.

Because we need to support a good number of authorization scenarios the system needs to be flexible.

So I wrote an expression parser that takes an "authorization expression" in my input language and outputs a function. That function takes the authorization context and either returns a Success value or a list of Failure.

The pattern I'm using to generate that function is called a "Validation." It's a kind of applicative functor which is essentially a list of functions we map over. The result is the success value or a semi-group of the failed functions. All my expression parser has to do is generate the "list of functions" to feed into the Validation.

This is really cool because now I can write very expressive authorization clauses and it always generates a nice function that either passes or gives the user a nice list of the exact conditions that failed. It's a surprisingly small amount of code for such a handy tool... Which means it's simple in the sense that it's precise and succinct.

Savvy?

I took some liberties with the definition of what an applicative functor is. If you're interested there are a great number of resources to learn about them and I encourage everyone to read up and try to understand the true definition themselves.

Re: Programming is boring

#69

Post by gandolfinmyhead » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 3:09 AM UTC

agentultra wrote: post #68

iduy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I don't understand what you built, but it seems interesting, can you please explain it in plain English.

Sure! The problem I need to solve is to add an authorization system to our stack. Because we need to support a good number of authorization scenarios the system needs to be flexible. So I wrote an expression parser that takes an "authorization expression" in my input language and outputs a function. That function takes the authorization context and either returns a Success value or a list of Failure. The pattern I'm…

sooo :: Foldable b => String -> (a -> Either a b)

Re: Programming is boring

#70

Post by saghm » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 4:09 AM UTC

eagsalazar2 wrote: post #12

sickbeard wrote: post #3

Programming is boring when you're solving mundane problems, when everything you need is already written in a nice library or package for you to put together like a 24 piece jigsaw puzzle. Get yourself an arduino, maybe esp8266, now program it to do something exciting. Another suggestion, an occasional after work punjabi sword fight might do the trick

Jigsaw puzzles are not boring, nor is mundane programming IMO. Challenging stuff is super fun of course but there is something satisfying and meditative about just doing a really meticulous job even if you are doing routine stuff. Just me?

I agree that jigsaw puzzles in general are not boring, but I also agree that 24-piece jigsaw puzzles are boring (at least, when they're not metaphorical)