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Want to Know What Virtual Reality Might Become? Look to the Past

nytimes.com

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Re: Want to Know What Virtual Reality Might Become? Look to the Past

#21

Post by stcredzero »

crooked-v wrote: post #17
stcredzero wrote: post #13

I think some Steve Jobs-ian thinking about the experience as a whole is called for at this point. VR/AR equipment needs to be friendly to the social experience and to social experiences, otherwise it's going to be out-competed through network effects by other equipment that has an advantage there. Current VR "room-scale" equipment seems to be optimal for 1) god-like player experiences, where you can survey a world, t…

I personally think the things that have the biggest potential in VR are games like Tabletop Simulator, where both the game itself and the context of "being with other people playing a game" are part of the experience.

Being at the same table with others playing a tabletop game is like being gods in a competitive pantheon playing with a world. I think we're essentially talking about the same "thing" -- it's just that our culture's level of understanding of it is still nascent. Most of our experience of this thing is through tabletop games. Now, we are just getting into the possibilities of VR for the "thing."

Re: Want to Know What Virtual Reality Might Become? Look to the Past

#22

Post by drzaiusapelord »

stcredzero wrote: post #20
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Day 1 Vive owner. It really isn't a big deal. Immersion gets overplayed a lot in the click-baity tech press. Sure it feels 'real' but about 3-4 steps removed from reality and where traditional 2D gaming is 5-6 steps away from reality. We are nowhere near anything that be can considered 0-2 steps from reality. There will always be an uncanny valley effect here and a sense of falseness. Humans aren't that easily fooled…

There's a big difference between the 3-4 steps and 5-6 steps. Just as you can't simply assume that everything in books automatically translates to film, you can't simply translate everything in film to VR. My Vive had performance issues where my background environment would randomly pop-up during games. I thought that was a feature called "Chaperone." You're not going to be in constant amazement or think you're in so…

Chaperone is when you get close to your room's edge. There's a bug that can make your background environment, which can be anything - mine was a spaceship, appear instantly. Its no biggie.

Re: Want to Know What Virtual Reality Might Become? Look to the Past

#23

Post by ryandamm »

crooked-v wrote: post #15
egypturnash wrote: post #12

> The most surprising twist in the evolution of V.R. may turn out to be the pace of the new medium. Quick cuts are an almost physical act of violence in V.R.; jumping from one perspective to another can create a literal sense of nausea. But more telling, perhaps, is the fact that people don’t want to move on to another experience once they’ve put the headset on. They want to linger. “I want to just put you in a field…

The difference here is that quick cuts in film, generally speaking, don't literally make people physically sick.

They used to make people sick. But we've adapted to watching screens, mostly. (First person shooters still make a lot of people ill, on regular TVs.) Plus, a grammar evolved (180 degree line of action, visual weights, etc) that allow experienced filmmakers to push the bounds of what's comfortable to watch.

Regular VR devs report (and I can corroborate) that you eventually lose your ability to get sick in VR. This extends to motion sickness in the real world; when I was experiencing a lot of nauseating VR, I no longer got nauseated by reading while driving, or on boats, etc. (Unfortunately your ability to get sick 'grows back' if you stop watching VR; the brain is rather plastic.)

Re: Want to Know What Virtual Reality Might Become? Look to the Past

#24

Post by Retric »

stcredzero wrote: post #20
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Day 1 Vive owner. It really isn't a big deal. Immersion gets overplayed a lot in the click-baity tech press. Sure it feels 'real' but about 3-4 steps removed from reality and where traditional 2D gaming is 5-6 steps away from reality. We are nowhere near anything that be can considered 0-2 steps from reality. There will always be an uncanny valley effect here and a sense of falseness. Humans aren't that easily fooled…

There's a big difference between the 3-4 steps and 5-6 steps. Just as you can't simply assume that everything in books automatically translates to film, you can't simply translate everything in film to VR. My Vive had performance issues where my background environment would randomly pop-up during games. I thought that was a feature called "Chaperone." You're not going to be in constant amazement or think you're in so…

Darkened theaters are rather like a screen stuck to your face. After a while you really stop noticing the 'static' background and people just focus on the screen.

Re: Want to Know What Virtual Reality Might Become? Look to the Past

#25

Post by Retric »

crooked-v wrote: post #15
egypturnash wrote: post #12

> The most surprising twist in the evolution of V.R. may turn out to be the pace of the new medium. Quick cuts are an almost physical act of violence in V.R.; jumping from one perspective to another can create a literal sense of nausea. But more telling, perhaps, is the fact that people don’t want to move on to another experience once they’ve put the headset on. They want to linger. “I want to just put you in a field…

The difference here is that quick cuts in film, generally speaking, don't literally make people physically sick.

Depends on the film, you can easily make viewers nauseous watching TV. The iMax film To Fly, had an insanely long run because it gives people a gut wrenching feeling at a few points. And 'shaky cam' footage bothers a lot of people.

Re: Want to Know What Virtual Reality Might Become? Look to the Past

#26

Post by jsemrau »

crooked-v wrote: post #17
stcredzero wrote: post #13

I think some Steve Jobs-ian thinking about the experience as a whole is called for at this point. VR/AR equipment needs to be friendly to the social experience and to social experiences, otherwise it's going to be out-competed through network effects by other equipment that has an advantage there. Current VR "room-scale" equipment seems to be optimal for 1) god-like player experiences, where you can survey a world, t…

I personally think the things that have the biggest potential in VR are games like Tabletop Simulator, where both the game itself and the context of "being with other people playing a game" are part of the experience.

Wouldn't that be more of an AR experience? Similar to the game in the original Star Wars on board the Falcon?

Re: Want to Know What Virtual Reality Might Become? Look to the Past

#27

Post by kordless »

pmoriarty wrote: post #10
kordless wrote: post #9

When your technology can modify someone's mind's eye view, call me. I will give you all my money if it works for me.

Would you have similarly avoided or not been impressed by photography or film when they were invented? How about writing?

I am not stating I would avoid this technology, so asking me if I would avoid similar technology isn't logical. I would take no action to avoid technologies, but I would limit them if I felt they were harmful to my well being.

I do not visualize (Aphantasia), so I would be much more excited if I could both see what is going on here AND have a mind's eye, even if it were artificial.

Re: Want to Know What Virtual Reality Might Become? Look to the Past

#28

Post by goldfeld »

kordless wrote: post #9

When your technology can modify someone's mind's eye view, call me. I will give you all my money if it works for me.

Welcome books and songs, our parents' technology that's been stable for a while and is always built to fit users' particular needs. Spend all your money on working less and enjoying these sensibilities; wind down to give them your full undivided mind. Imagination needs cultivation and the more you use (i.e. restrict it) the sharper it gets.

Re: Want to Know What Virtual Reality Might Become? Look to the Past

#29

Post by ralfd »

crooked-v wrote: post #17
stcredzero wrote: post #13

I think some Steve Jobs-ian thinking about the experience as a whole is called for at this point. VR/AR equipment needs to be friendly to the social experience and to social experiences, otherwise it's going to be out-competed through network effects by other equipment that has an advantage there. Current VR "room-scale" equipment seems to be optimal for 1) god-like player experiences, where you can survey a world, t…

I personally think the things that have the biggest potential in VR are games like Tabletop Simulator, where both the game itself and the context of "being with other people playing a game" are part of the experience.

> I personally think the things that have the biggest potential in VR are

Porn. Let's be realistic.

Re: Want to Know What Virtual Reality Might Become? Look to the Past

#30

Post by maverick_iceman »

ralfd wrote: post #29
crooked-v wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally think the things that have the biggest potential in VR are games like Tabletop Simulator, where both the game itself and the context of "being with other people playing a game" are part of the experience.

> I personally think the things that have the biggest potential in VR are Porn. Let's be realistic.

I have watched some VR porn. It's nothing to write home about yet. Maybe in future.
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