Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

nplusonemag.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–47 of 47 posts

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#41

Post by [deleted] »

casualstroller wrote: post #37
myth_drannon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why when I see photos of the Syrian war, I see so many blond and blue eyed children. I assume they are the descendants of the Slavs(slaves) you are talking about

You have no clue what you're talking about. To begin with, Slavs != "slaves". Learn the etymology of the word and read up on some history: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs Once you're done, use Wikipea or Google to look for Indo-Iranians, their physical characteristics and their movement from 4000-1000 BCE ((TL;DR blue-eyed people didn't originate in Europe). Good luck.

[deleted]

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#42

Post by boomlinde »

casualstroller wrote: post #37
myth_drannon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why when I see photos of the Syrian war, I see so many blond and blue eyed children. I assume they are the descendants of the Slavs(slaves) you are talking about

You have no clue what you're talking about. To begin with, Slavs != "slaves". Learn the etymology of the word and read up on some history: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs Once you're done, use Wikipea or Google to look for Indo-Iranians, their physical characteristics and their movement from 4000-1000 BCE ((TL;DR blue-eyed people didn't originate in Europe). Good luck.

Maybe review the etymology of the word "slave" before you jump to conclusions about GP's cluelessness.

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#43

Post by kafkaesq »

RandomName2020 wrote: post #34
kafkaesq wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever been to the former USSR? I'd prefer not get too much into personal identity or travel itineraries, if you don't mind. Let's just say I have plenty of shared personal context with the former USSR (enough to have found about the topic first through personal contacts, rather than stuff I read in the press or online). I am not sure about what you mean by "forced russification" It's kind of hard not to, thes…

> "forced russification" If you follow the definition literally, then yes. Yet, Russia always was very careful with the culture of the colonies, way more careful than Britain, France and Westerners in General. > But these are different topics. No, actually not. Russia is always disproportionately blamed for being a cultural oppressor, however as an Empire, USSR needed a single unifying culture and language. In that r…

Russia is always disproportionately blamed for being a cultural oppressor,

Might have something to do with the early 20th-century body count (whereas most of the other empires managed to get their megakilling sprees wrapped up by 1900 or so). Along with all those sinister Russian accents in Hollywood movies. But yeah, friends of mine have confessed this feeling to me, also (that, as Russians, they feel unduly blamed / hated by the world).

...however as an Empire, USSR needed a single unifying culture and language

Same justification used by... basically every other major empire on the planet, you know.

Either way, this is all getting very far afield from the topic of the original article.

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#44

Post by myth_drannon »

casualstroller wrote: post #37
myth_drannon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why when I see photos of the Syrian war, I see so many blond and blue eyed children. I assume they are the descendants of the Slavs(slaves) you are talking about

You have no clue what you're talking about. To begin with, Slavs != "slaves". Learn the etymology of the word and read up on some history: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs Once you're done, use Wikipea or Google to look for Indo-Iranians, their physical characteristics and their movement from 4000-1000 BCE ((TL;DR blue-eyed people didn't originate in Europe). Good luck.

Origin of the word Slave : "The term slave has its origins in the word slav. The slavs, who inhabited a large part of Eastern Europe, were taken as slaves by the Muslims of Spain during the ninth century AD."

Source BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafr...

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#45

Post by kafkaesq »

threesixandnine wrote: post #39
type0 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> purely ideological by nature; not against ethnicities, cultures etc (those were in fact actively preserved) - Stalin himself was from a tiny minority nation of Georgians. It doesn't matter what the official stance was, what matters what happened. My own relatives were sent to Siberia for being ethnic minorities, despite that they fought for the reds with the russian troupes in the finnish civil war. You can make ex…

Nothing you said is a proof that what happened has roots in state-wide hate against particular minority. It's personal and biased. My grandparents were stripped of all land as well and I am 100% certain it was not because of ethnicity since they were of the same as the ruling ethnic majority. What you are explaining is probably local authorities - humans hated your relatives because of their ethnicity and that was on…

The fact that minorities survived and thrived on the same scale as Russians and got sent and taken land from on the same scale as Russians and got sent to Siberia on the same scale as Russians is a proof that there was no policy to destroy particular minority on a state level. It was a policy to destroy enemies of the state.

It is a matter of historical record beyond dispute that certain ethnic groups (e.g. Ukrainians, Poles, Germans, Balts, Tatars, Cossacks, Chechen and Ingush, in particular) were murdered, deported and suffered otherwise disproportionately during Stalin's reign.

You can argue whether this was motivated out of some pure "hatred" or not -- but if so, you'd be splitting hairs.

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#46

Post by RandomName2020 »

kbart wrote: post #40
RandomName2020 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are from a Baltic country there is no point to argue with you, because the sentiment against Russia and everything Russian, for whatever reason, is so strong, that people celebrate Nazis as heroes, just because they against Russia. Holodomor was not a genocide against Ukranians, it was ideologically charged event, so it is not comparable to genocide gainst Native Americans, or lynching. "And you lynching Negro…

Your upper comments are utter bullshit and outright lies. Flagged it. "If you are from a Baltic country people celebrate Nazis as heroes, just because they against Russia." No. Simply no.

Go for it. Neonazism in Baltic countries is widespread and government put a blind eye on it. Report as much as you want truth won't change.

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#47

Post by eveningcoffee »

RandomName2020 wrote: post #26
rdtsc wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> did not kill the native population of the republics on massive scale, You're kidding right? They sent the local village priest to Siberia. Took away the land my great grand father owned. Sent tens of thousands of other people to Siberia to labor camp. Yeah if you consider shoving them like cattle into unheated train cars in the middle of the winter for a multi-week journey "not kill" then yes, they just happened to…

There was atrocities during Stalin times true. However they were purely ideological by nature; not against ethnicities, cultures etc (those were in fact actively preserved) - Stalin himself was from a tiny minority nation of Georgians. USA, OTOH, eradicated native Americans on a large scale, brought slaves with destroying their culture. USSR after Stalin was far, far less racist than USA, up until its fall in 1990s.

Russians have a question: "why do they not love us?".

Instead of admitting that this was wrong and horrible, and understand the part of Russians in it, some (I like to keep this option open that some do not) start to find utterly stupid excuses for it.

Maybe you try to be a different person? A better person, one that could be loved and cherished by your neighbours?

Saying that others did it too or that we also suffered does not cut it.

See, that you suffered because of a tyrant of your is your own fault, that you also together with your tyrant terrorised your neighbours is your fault. Until you keep justifying it, you will not find respect.

Post reply on HN