I occasionally drink wine (in the restricted sense, i.e. made from grapes), but I prefer beer. There's a lot more variation in flavour (because there are at least four ingredients in beer, and umpteen different recipes), and even the very best beers - things like Trappist ales - aren't obscenely expensive.
How to get the wine you really want
91–100 of 164 posts
Re: How to get the wine you really want
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Twenty years ago I was a tea-totaller, but there was a group of people I wanted to hang out with who would get together to drink wine so I decided to try to develop a taste for it. Could you go into a bit more detail on this? The very idea of forcing myself to "acquire the taste" for alcohol seems distasteful in itself. I've got additional reasons for choosing not to do so, but I'd be interested to hear another poi…
> The very idea of forcing myself to "acquire the taste" for alcohol seems distasteful in itself. The logic of any acquired taste is simple: It takes a finite amount of effort to acquire the taste. In return, you get satisfaction for the acquired taste that is only bound by the length of your life. The sooner you acquire the taste, the longer you get to amortize the value. I've taught myself to enjoy damn near every…
Well yeah, when you have drugs to "teach" your brain how to enjoy something (i.e. "this flavor = feel goods"), it's not that hard. I always figure that having to aqcuire the taste of something via drugs is a warning sign that said thing is probably not good for your body. Take tobacco connoisseurs for example.
I don't doubt that they can taste and enjoy lots of "woody" and "grassy" flavors in their smoke, but to someone like me without the acquired taste, it smells foul and acrid, and my brain is warning me to stay away.
Re: How to get the wine you really want
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is amazing how much apparently unrelated information can sway out impressions of the taste of a product, hence the infamous "dyed white wine described as you would a red by experts" experiment - the visual cue can have a massive effect on how the wine tasting experience was reported. Another classic example is many people not being able to distinguish between the small of parmesan and vomit, how they rate the smel…
> hence the infamous "dyed white wine described as you would a red by experts" experiment That turns out to be somewhat of an urban legend. http://sciencesnopes.blogspot.com/2013/05/about-that-wine-ex... > The results of such priming experiments are notoriously varied though - reproduction is often unreliable. Yes, this is why it's important for everyone to just do these experiments for themselves and decide what the…
Re: How to get the wine you really want
#94Of course they do! The problem with wine is that the user experience of selecting one is shitty. If you study how users work, to get them to explore, you need a couple of things:
1. They need signals and affordances to give them hints as to which new actions are most likely to be what they want.
2. After they have made a choice, they need to be able to quickly get feedback to determine if it was what they wanted.
3. They need to be confident that if they try an action and it isn't what they want, that they can retract their attempt easily and without negative consequences.
Wine fails at pretty much all of these.
1. The packaging and terminology around wine is inscrutable. The labels usually mention brand (sometimes), location, and variety. As far as I know, most of those have little internal correlation. Two wines from the same winery can taste totally different. Likewise, two wines from the same area, and using the same variety. If I like, say, Chateau LeBlah Merlot from Bordeaux, that doesn't give me much confidence that I can predict what Chateau LeBlah's Cabernet is like, or a Bordeaux with a different variety, or whatever.
The label also tells you the year and the price. Again, those numbers often do not correlate with anything I can easily discern in the taste of the wine.
2. This is half there. I can take a sip and tell if I like it. Well, except that doesn't work out as well as you'd expect. Food and environment has a huge impact on taste. There is also the social experience of drinking. If a friend says, "Oh my God, you have to try this, it's amazing!" then it probably will taste better to me.
If I like a glass, did I really like it, or did I just like the experience? Or did I feel pressured to like it? Or did the high price tag convince me I should have liked it and if I didn't I just don't have a refined enough palate? Should I stick with it to see if I acquire a taste and understand what all the fuss is about?
3. In theory, most restaurants let you try a taste before you commit. But that in itself is a high pressure social act. The rest of my companions will watch my taste it and pass judgement. It's stressful being on the spot.
Usually, I just pick something and stick with it. If I'm not enthused about it, I'll slowly work my way through it sip by sip. I would feel weird ordering something else with a full glass sitting there. And I don't want to just gulp it down to move on to another glass because I don't want to drink too much.
If I'm buying wine at a grocery store, there's less social pressure, but I'm even more committed. I have to buy a whole bottle, and I can't return it.
Of course people stick with the one or two wines they know. The whole system points directly to that as rational behavior.
Re: How to get the wine you really want
#95Twenty years ago I was a tea-totaller, but there was a group of people I wanted to hang out with who would get together to drink wine so I decided to try to develop a taste for it. I eventually got to be a pretty hard-core wine snob. My wife and I even ran a wine-tasting group for several years. Then one day we decided to start doing blind tastings, and we soon learned that there was very little correlation between w…
The only real exception that I know of is Hunter Valley (Australia) wines. The Hunter Valley is a very unreliable wine region and it only gets a really good vintage every 5 to 10 years. Wine makers just can't charge the correct price for hunter wines in the good vintages because they have to be able to shift their production the rest of the time. In a good year you can get totally amazing wines for a very reasonable price - the only problem is the long wait.
Re: How to get the wine you really want
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
My father has been a wine lover for all his, now long, adult life. He has an impressive cellar with some of the best wines of Spain and France. He was also fooled in some blind tastings, like believing a white wine was actually red. But he can also tell the difference between most of his favorite wines, and so do I. So this is not a black or white situation. While some blind taste tests are difficult, others are easy…
Honest question. Your example of the external conditions that enable the 34 year old wine to shine. How does that work with the wine? In other words, if I substitute the cheap modern wine that otherwise won in the blind taste test, what happens differently in the setting you describe?
A famous version of this was the "Pepsi challenge". It turns out that people preferred the taste of pepsi in the test conditions, but coke in other, longer testing conditions. So part of it is biochemical (e.g. the taste you experience on the first bite/sip of something is not the same as the 20th) but some is also mental. Your experience of the taste of something can change with the environment you sample it in.
Re: How to get the wine you really want
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
> hence the infamous "dyed white wine described as you would a red by experts" experiment That turns out to be somewhat of an urban legend. http://sciencesnopes.blogspot.com/2013/05/about-that-wine-ex... > The results of such priming experiments are notoriously varied though - reproduction is often unreliable. Yes, this is why it's important for everyone to just do these experiments for themselves and decide what the…
I was challenged on this after repeating the misleading account of Brochet's experiment, and I, and everyone else with me, could easily tell the difference blindfolded. However, none of us was an "expert" wine taster, we knew that one glass was white and the other red, and our eyes were covered. It transpires that colour does affect your perception of flavour, the subjects in Brochet's experiment were deliberately de…
Re: How to get the wine you really want
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Twenty years ago I was a tea-totaller, but there was a group of people I wanted to hang out with who would get together to drink wine so I decided to try to develop a taste for it. Could you go into a bit more detail on this? The very idea of forcing myself to "acquire the taste" for alcohol seems distasteful in itself. I've got additional reasons for choosing not to do so, but I'd be interested to hear another poi…
no one(maybe some) likes alcohol the first time. one must acquire a taste for it. that doesn't mean it's not worth it. scotch was so disgusting to me the first time i had it and now it's one of the great pleasures in my life.
Re: How to get the wine you really want
#99Twenty years ago I was a tea-totaller, but there was a group of people I wanted to hang out with who would get together to drink wine so I decided to try to develop a taste for it. I eventually got to be a pretty hard-core wine snob. My wife and I even ran a wine-tasting group for several years. Then one day we decided to start doing blind tastings, and we soon learned that there was very little correlation between w…
Re: How to get the wine you really want
#100Twenty years ago I was a tea-totaller, but there was a group of people I wanted to hang out with who would get together to drink wine so I decided to try to develop a taste for it. I eventually got to be a pretty hard-core wine snob. My wife and I even ran a wine-tasting group for several years. Then one day we decided to start doing blind tastings, and we soon learned that there was very little correlation between w…
But I've found I have had to get more clever about the wines I like by finding vineyards near to the fancy ones, such as a wine from Gigondas vs. its more expensive neighbour Chateau-du-Pape, or a good Cremant or Prosecco vs. Champagne. Even at that not every supposedly "great" wine is transcendent, but from the right areas I've occasionally I gotten lucky and it's really something else. And some of the best wines I've had weren't for sale, small hotel in Tuscany making it's own wine, or a professor in Hungary who happened to own a vineyard were stunning.