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The People's Code

code.gov

161–170 of 203 posts

Re: The People's Code

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, with monopsony it's rather simple: "If you don't publish the code, then we will have to use paper ballots."

No effort towards innovation would then go into that sector. Ever again.

How much Innovation is there? Its a voting booth, not an iphone. It should be a solid device with open-source code deep enough to validate counting.

Re: The People's Code

#162
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Opening up code in voting machine would be leagues better than leaving it closed source. At least other experts in the field could verify it. Its also not like every citizen today can or understand all of the vote counting procedures with paper ballots, even when just constrained to their ballot.

Oh yes, I don't discourage it. I just think that you can't be satisfy with it. Open source voting machine are still an abomination for the democratic process.

remind me again how the open-source part makes anything worse than a standard voting machine?

Re: The People's Code

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, with monopsony it's rather simple: "If you don't publish the code, then we will have to use paper ballots."

No effort towards innovation would then go into that sector. Ever again.

I'm not sure if this it's a popular decision, but I don't really think the private sector should be innovating with our electoral system. Integrity is of utmost importance, and voting machines have been proven vulnerable in the past. I don't think the private sector has appropriate motivation to really get voting right.

Re: The People's Code

#164
post #147

Why the subsidy to Google? Sending tracking data to Google isn't appropriate for a government site. /* i='GTM-M9L9Q5' */ /* ... */ src='https://www.googletagmanager.com/gtm.js?id='+i /* ... */ Also, requiring Javascript in a single page application is a terrible design for this kind of site. Almost all of this can be static pages or traditional web frameworks. Requiring Javascript made the download much larger than n…

Just a wild guess here, but I bet they're using Google Analytics for the same reason everyone else uses Google Analytics--to see what their audience is looking at. > Also, requiring Javascript in a single page application is a terrible design for this kind of site. Good luck making a single page application without Javascript! It is all in 25 requests and 668KB, not the lightest site, but that's actually less data th…

I know why they want analytics; I'm asking why they are giving out live tracking data to a single private company. This free data is effectively a subsidy.

> Good luck making a single page application without Javascript

The bad design decision was making it a single page application in the first place. This should be a static site, or very lightweight (and easily cached) framework.

> 25 requests and 668KB

That's an obscene amount of bloat. This should be 3-5 requests not counting images, and 668kB is an order of magnitude too big.

> less data than the homepage of Google is today

Comparing against another massively over-engineered, bloated web page isn't particularly useful.

> expires headers

That's great, but it doesn't affect the initial download size or the memory/CPU usage in the user agent.

https://vimeo.com/147806338

Re: The People's Code

#165
post #147

Why the subsidy to Google? Sending tracking data to Google isn't appropriate for a government site. /* i='GTM-M9L9Q5' */ /* ... */ src='https://www.googletagmanager.com/gtm.js?id='+i /* ... */ Also, requiring Javascript in a single page application is a terrible design for this kind of site. Almost all of this can be static pages or traditional web frameworks. Requiring Javascript made the download much larger than n…

Just a wild guess here, but I bet they're using Google Analytics for the same reason everyone else uses Google Analytics--to see what their audience is looking at. > Also, requiring Javascript in a single page application is a terrible design for this kind of site. Good luck making a single page application without Javascript! It is all in 25 requests and 668KB, not the lightest site, but that's actually less data th…

Mobile browsers don't always keep things until the server says they expire. That being said a frequent user will probably end up saving data in the long run.

Re: The People's Code

#166
post #147

Why the subsidy to Google? Sending tracking data to Google isn't appropriate for a government site. /* i='GTM-M9L9Q5' */ /* ... */ src='https://www.googletagmanager.com/gtm.js?id='+i /* ... */ Also, requiring Javascript in a single page application is a terrible design for this kind of site. Almost all of this can be static pages or traditional web frameworks. Requiring Javascript made the download much larger than n…

Looks like the US government makes widescale use of Google analytics, so it's hardly inappropriate: https://analytics.usa.gov/

Pointing out more instances of a problem doesn't make the problem "hardly inappropriate"; it indicates the problem is more widespread.

Re: The People's Code

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people can't understand the code in openssl. So we shouldn't use it? Let's just make all cryptography closed source then. The average person doesn't even know what an elliptic function is. The point is that there is a large amount of people that do. They check. Not every citizen needs to check, but it is harder for there to be an error or to hoodwink someone if there are more eyes on the code. Essentially why op…

Crypto and democracy can't be compared. You can delegate advanced science, you should not delegate democracy, because it's the root of all the rest.

Open source voting software isn't delegating democracy, it is auditing the tool that is being used.

Re: The People's Code

#168
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is...most jobs. Unless I'm not understanding your meaning. Many jobs will fire you for, say, getting a DUI or getting arrested for drug possession or something. And many employers do drug testing. But realistically, a "limited sub-selection of possible activities" is just about everything everyone else can do, except maybe go to Cuba or smoke pot, the latter of which will get one fired at many non-government pla…

Smoking weed is not going to get you fired anywhere , except for the worst jobs in the worst places. Any place that does regular drug testing and/or cares one teeny tiny itsy bitsy bit about employees smoking weed when they're not working is guaranteed to be a terrible place to work at, for that and any number of other reasons. There is not a single reputable company in the entire tech industry that does this.

That is definitely not true:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/15/news/companies/dish-employee...

Re: The People's Code

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, with monopsony it's rather simple: "If you don't publish the code, then we will have to use paper ballots."

No effort towards innovation would then go into that sector. Ever again.

I, as a taxpayer/legislator, can't contract a private company to (for a token fee) write and support a codebase that they will (as part of the contract) open source? The people win, as we get open source and hopefully transparent code. The company wins, as they're paid for their work (as they should be).

I fully expect that this would be more expensive than closed source.

(I'm not convinced that we should be using electronic voting at all, but that's a different debate.)

Re: The People's Code

#170

How about open source code for some makes and models of voting machine? The US Veterans' Administration health records software system is in the public domain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VistA#Licensing_and_disseminat... But it's not listed here. (It's also kind of complex. "wget; tar x; ./configure ; make" probably won't get you a running instance. Still.

Voting machines are products produced by private firms. Getting them to publish the source code is about as likely as getting Apple to publish the source for iOS.

That used to be true. The market is being disrupted by new open source models. Cost of election tech should drop precipitously.
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