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How to get the wine you really want

economist.com

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Re: How to get the wine you really want

#41

Post by Grishnakh »

buckbova wrote: post #36

> Traditionalists may be appalled by all this, but they should not be. In Mr Wimalaratne’s mind, the function of the Vinfusion system is in principle little different from the blending of grape varieties that goes on in many vineyards, to produce wines more interesting than those based on a single variety. After spending a couple weeks in central coast and napa recently, tasting probably ~100 glasses, this kind of so…

Yep, it's insulting in just the same way it's insulting that people now program computers with high-level languages like C++, Java, Erlang, Python, Lua, etc., instead of using patch cables or punch cards. Or in the same way that people now just get on a jet airplane for $200-500 and fly across the country, instead of using a covered wagon and worrying about being attacked by natives.

The "house red" isn't something that everyone likes. Would you go to a restaurant that only has one dish for dinner, with no choices at all? I wouldn't. Most people seem to like dry wines; personally I hate those. Ordering "house red" is likely to get me something I don't want to drink, so why would I do that? That's like going to an ice cream shop where there's no choices, and I get served some tapioca with nuts in it (i.e., ice cream I really hate).

Re: How to get the wine you really want

#42

Post by ogig »

CPLX wrote: post #25
lisper wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Was it the case that the Silver Oak bottle probably needed some time to open up? This was a long time ago so it's hard to say. But I've had plenty of reds that tasted great straight out of the bottle, so IMHO any wine that needs to "open up" is not as good as one that doesn't. Also, while it is absolutely true that the taste of a wine will change over the course of an evening, it's far from clear how much of this i…

> IMHO any wine that needs to "open up" is not as good as one that doesn't. Yikes. Gonna have to disagree with you on that. The effect of a wine being aerated/oxidized after being opened and/or decanted is obvious even to a casual wine drinker. > I now know plenty of wines that reliably taste great (to me) straight out of the gate and keep tasting great through the whole bottle even if I keep it for a couple of days…

Exactly this.

There are a huge range of wines that need to be decanted. The effect is not only obvious but marvelous, how they start smelling and evolve into something much deeper, specially on the oldest bottles.

Same with the degradation. I have a vacuum pump for the bottles I left open and the degradation is still obvious.

Re: How to get the wine you really want

#43

Post by petters »

dajohnson89 wrote: post #30
lisper wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Was it the case that the Silver Oak bottle probably needed some time to open up? This was a long time ago so it's hard to say. But I've had plenty of reds that tasted great straight out of the bottle, so IMHO any wine that needs to "open up" is not as good as one that doesn't. Also, while it is absolutely true that the taste of a wine will change over the course of an evening, it's far from clear how much of this i…

>so IMHO any wine that needs to "open up" is not as good as one that doesn't. I respectfully disagree. Basically I stick to cheap wines (for budget reasons), and my decanter will turn almost any unbearable red into acceptable. A newly opened red sometimes just needs to be smoothed out via air a bit -- at the extreme of things, if you leave a glass out overnight it will be flat (not to mention, the alcohol will have e…

Are you saying the alcohol will be gone overnight? I doubt that.

Re: How to get the wine you really want

#44

Post by rfrank »

ogig wrote: post #38
lisper wrote: post #3

Twenty years ago I was a tea-totaller, but there was a group of people I wanted to hang out with who would get together to drink wine so I decided to try to develop a taste for it. I eventually got to be a pretty hard-core wine snob. My wife and I even ran a wine-tasting group for several years. Then one day we decided to start doing blind tastings, and we soon learned that there was very little correlation between w…

My father has been a wine lover for all his, now long, adult life. He has an impressive cellar with some of the best wines of Spain and France. He was also fooled in some blind tastings, like believing a white wine was actually red. But he can also tell the difference between most of his favorite wines, and so do I. So this is not a black or white situation. While some blind taste tests are difficult, others are easy…

> There are plenty of sommelier competitions where they tell apart years and zones very precisely.

There's a documentary called Somm that follows a few people as they prepare for the Master Sommelier exam, it's impressive how precisely they can determine the year and region of a wine.

Example tasting from the doc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKNmcCCE15E

Re: How to get the wine you really want

#45

Post by Grishnakh »

lisper wrote: post #3

Twenty years ago I was a tea-totaller, but there was a group of people I wanted to hang out with who would get together to drink wine so I decided to try to develop a taste for it. I eventually got to be a pretty hard-core wine snob. My wife and I even ran a wine-tasting group for several years. Then one day we decided to start doing blind tastings, and we soon learned that there was very little correlation between w…

Years ago, I had a relative who was running a restaurant, and she did a wine-tasting for the staff to educate them on wines and pairings, and I got to sit in on it. It wasn't a blind taste-test, but they opened a bunch of bottles of wine, port, and champagne (only ones that'd be served at a restaurant though, not some ultra-cheap supermarket stuff).

Invariably, I found that I liked the cheapest varieties the best. The $100/bottle port tasted like crap to me ("Grandfathers"? I think that might have been the name), whereas the cheapest port was fantastic paired with chocolate, which was something I had never tried at the time. Same with wines and champagnes; the cheap Asti Spumanti tasted good to me, the expensive stuff was just nasty.

I also think the roll-your-own is a great idea. Wine snobbery is annoying; I try to only buy bottles where they show right on the label what kind of wine it is (sweet vs. dry) instead of a bunch of stupid flowery language about notes and aromas.

I also wish they'd cut it out with the stupid corks. Those make as much sense now as wooden spokes on car wheels, or 50-pin SCSI ports on computers. Screw-on caps are superior in every way.

Re: How to get the wine you really want

#46

Post by buckbova »

Grishnakh wrote: post #41
buckbova wrote: post #36

> Traditionalists may be appalled by all this, but they should not be. In Mr Wimalaratne’s mind, the function of the Vinfusion system is in principle little different from the blending of grape varieties that goes on in many vineyards, to produce wines more interesting than those based on a single variety. After spending a couple weeks in central coast and napa recently, tasting probably ~100 glasses, this kind of so…

Yep, it's insulting in just the same way it's insulting that people now program computers with high-level languages like C++, Java, Erlang, Python, Lua, etc., instead of using patch cables or punch cards. Or in the same way that people now just get on a jet airplane for $200-500 and fly across the country, instead of using a covered wagon and worrying about being attacked by natives. The "house red" isn't something t…

> it's insulting in just the same way it's insulting that people now program computers with high-level languages like C++, Java, Erlang, Python, Lua, etc., instead of using patch cables or punch cards

It's hardly the same thing. Someone still has to produce the wine and then it's blended by the machine. For a software comparison it's probably the difference between hand crafted software by a group of professionals and someone picking a wordpress template and adding plugins.

> The "house red" isn't something that everyone likes. Would you go to a restaurant that only has one dish for dinner, with no choices at all?

The "house red" is still a glass of wine from a bottle, just not chosen by the patron. There's still a wine list to choose from for the more picky customers. Restaurants also have something called the "special of the day" or "chef recommended" and that's basically what we're talking about here. You can go to the menu or take the "special."

Re: How to get the wine you really want

#47

Post by eric_h »

lisper wrote: post #34
thesimpsons1022 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i wonder if it's the same for whiskeys or really any alchohol.

Yes, absolutely. Since the infamous cab tasting we've done blind tastings of spirits with similar results. Our favorite vodka, for example, turns out to be Seagrams Extra Smooth, which is about half the price of a "high end" vodka. Unfortunately, it doesn't always turn out that way. My favorite scotch turns out to be Lagavulin or Laphroaig -- I really like the smokey flavor of Islay malts -- both of which are rather…

Personally, I find that whiskey, beer, tequila and mescal are the only alcohol products where price really does line up with quality.

Re: How to get the wine you really want

#48

Post by Grishnakh »

Ntrails wrote: post #14
lisper wrote: post #3

Twenty years ago I was a tea-totaller, but there was a group of people I wanted to hang out with who would get together to drink wine so I decided to try to develop a taste for it. I eventually got to be a pretty hard-core wine snob. My wife and I even ran a wine-tasting group for several years. Then one day we decided to start doing blind tastings, and we soon learned that there was very little correlation between w…

> Twenty years ago I was a tea-totaller, but there was a group of people I wanted to hang out with who would get together to drink wine so I decided to try to develop a taste for it. Could you go into a bit more detail on this? The very idea of forcing myself to "acquire the taste" for alcohol seems distasteful in itself. I've got additional reasons for choosing not to do so, but I'd be interested to hear another poi…

You don't drink wine for the alcohol, you drink it for the flavor. It's just like tea; no one drinks a nice cup of Earl Grey with Bourgamot for the caffeine. If you want to get liquored up, there's far cheaper and more efficient ways to do it than wine, and if you want caffeine, there's faster and more effective ways of getting that too that don't require carefully heating water and steeping a teabag.

A lot of people do like the effect of the alcohol, but it's a side-effect, not the main purpose of drinking wine. Personally, it seems to have no effect on me, but I also don't drink very much at a time.

Forcing yourself to "acquire the taste" for wine is no different than forcing yourself to "acquire the taste" for expensive, fine cheeses, or doing the same for fine cuts of meat instead of eating a McDonald's burger.

Re: How to get the wine you really want

#49

Post by steven777400 »

ogig wrote: post #38
lisper wrote: post #3

Twenty years ago I was a tea-totaller, but there was a group of people I wanted to hang out with who would get together to drink wine so I decided to try to develop a taste for it. I eventually got to be a pretty hard-core wine snob. My wife and I even ran a wine-tasting group for several years. Then one day we decided to start doing blind tastings, and we soon learned that there was very little correlation between w…

My father has been a wine lover for all his, now long, adult life. He has an impressive cellar with some of the best wines of Spain and France. He was also fooled in some blind tastings, like believing a white wine was actually red. But he can also tell the difference between most of his favorite wines, and so do I. So this is not a black or white situation. While some blind taste tests are difficult, others are easy…

Honest question. Your example of the external conditions that enable the 34 year old wine to shine. How does that work with the wine? In other words, if I substitute the cheap modern wine that otherwise won in the blind taste test, what happens differently in the setting you describe?

Re: How to get the wine you really want

#50

Post by dajohnson89 »

petters wrote: post #43
dajohnson89 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>so IMHO any wine that needs to "open up" is not as good as one that doesn't. I respectfully disagree. Basically I stick to cheap wines (for budget reasons), and my decanter will turn almost any unbearable red into acceptable. A newly opened red sometimes just needs to be smoothed out via air a bit -- at the extreme of things, if you leave a glass out overnight it will be flat (not to mention, the alcohol will have e…

Are you saying the alcohol will be gone overnight? I doubt that.

if not completely gone, then dramatically reduced.

source: have left a glass of wine on my nitestand before, and in the morning it was glass of sour grape juice.

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