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Web fonts, boy, I don't know

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Re: Web fonts, boy, I don't know

#281

Post by jonatron »

b1daly wrote: post #277

I'm mystified by how many major sites have terrible usability issues on mobile devices that are used widely. (older iDevices cheap-mid level Android phones). Are the proprietors of these sites, which live and die on their traffic, actually unaware of how bad the experience is? Or are the proprietors oblivious because they always have the latest iPhone or Galaxy? Are the developers oblivious too, or are they keeping t…

>Are the proprietors oblivious because they always have the latest iPhone or Galaxy?

Probably. They can say "I've checked it on mobile".

Re: Web fonts, boy, I don't know

#282

Post by signal11 »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #7

I have had the exact experience in the last month. Being on a slow connection, I've come to loath web fonts. There is nothing wrong with them in general but it's just that they've come to symbolise over-indulgence and a myopia towards the users actual task-focused needs as opposed to aesthetics. Part of the issue is dealing with progressive enhancement as far as slow internet connections go. How do you solve that pro…

I have this exact issue with web fonts. One neat trick I discovered on slow/flaky connections (think train passing through countryside) is that you can read the page quickly by going into iOS Safari's Reader View. It's a bit hit-and-miss though.

As a web author though, a big problem I have is that Android's default font set is pretty ugly, which is a big reason site owners want web fonts in the first place. Both Windows and macOS have a decent bundle of fonts. Android has Roboto, but using just Roboto for everything is a drag. And I'm not aware of any good serif font bundled with Android.

EDIT - for some of my sites I've set up the stylesheet so that iOS and Mac/Win get system fonts. Android and Desktop Linux get web fonts.

Re: Web fonts, boy, I don't know

#283

Post by moonbug »

DocTomoe wrote: post #270

> awesome free roaming 2G So instead of fixing the real problem - which is obviously connectivity - we need to break the web and add another layer of Javascript complexity to something that works perfectly fine without. It's 2016. 2G is 25 years old (started in 1991!). Stop being cheap. Stop working with 2G.

There is life beyond SV, and not all of it has your infrastructure.

Re: Web fonts, boy, I don't know

#284

Post by dredmorbius »

scholia wrote: post #168
Nadya wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't alone and some go even further! I make my own "enhancement suite" for any website I frequent. I blacklist all Javascript by default and whitelist only Javascript necessary for things to function. I use Greasemonkey to add my own functionality to a page, sometimes blacklisting the "default" functionality and rolling my own code to replace it in a more "me-friendly" way. And finally, Stylish, so that I can c…

Would it be feasible to have an "enhancement pack" website where less talented people (ie me) could get fixes like this. I remember doing stuff like this with Proxomitron in the good old days....

I pretty much taught myself CSS fixing fucked-up shit I didn't like on sites I was visiting, through Stylebot and (now) Stylish.

Stylebot is slightly easier to get started with, but Stylish is a better and more powerful tool, also available for Firefox.

I haven't got into JS yet.

Otherwise, installing GS scripts or Stylish themes works.

Re: Web fonts, boy, I don't know

#285

Post by dredmorbius »

Nadya wrote: post #180
scholia wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it be feasible to have an "enhancement pack" website where less talented people (ie me) could get fixes like this. I remember doing stuff like this with Proxomitron in the good old days....

>Would it be feasible to have an "enhancement pack" website where less talented people (ie me) could get fixes like this. Sort of? At least if I'm understanding you properly. :) It used to be that userscripts.org was a thing. Now I think you need to use a mirror [0]. There is also a subreddit for them [1]. Stylish should have a similar site for themes - although not all userscripts will work properly with Stylish (st…

What happened to userscripts.org?

Re: Web fonts, boy, I don't know

#286

Post by throwanem »

mcbits wrote: post #218
kutkloon7 wrote: post #202

I absolutely do not understand the need for 'web fonts'. Just specify a normal font that most users already have installed in CSS, with some fallbacks. 'Progressive styling' is way more annoying (in my humble opinion) than waiting some time. Pages like the verge can take minutes anyway, when the wifi is not optimal. When you do things progressively, the page just keeps on changing, and the page can't really be used.…

The shifting page layout is a symptom of a broader problem, in that it's impossible to accurately predict or specify the rendered dimensions of text. Even measuring a container after the fact is unreliable because of the arbitrary amount of whitespace in different fonts. You'd have to generate a bitmap image and detect a bounding box around the pixels, which definitely won't help with loading times. This can't be don…

"Legible" is a funny way to misspell "perfectly representative of the artist's unique and precious vision".

Re: Web fonts, boy, I don't know

#287

Post by throwanem »

jamesdelaneyie wrote: post #220
kutkloon7 wrote: post #202

I absolutely do not understand the need for 'web fonts'. Just specify a normal font that most users already have installed in CSS, with some fallbacks. 'Progressive styling' is way more annoying (in my humble opinion) than waiting some time. Pages like the verge can take minutes anyway, when the wifi is not optimal. When you do things progressively, the page just keeps on changing, and the page can't really be used.…

>I absolutely do not understand the need for 'web fonts'. Just specify a normal font that most users already have installed in CSS, with some fallbacks. I suppose some people are happy with color: red, while others like a bit more variety and opt for color: #a82a33.

If #a82a33 takes ten seconds to load and everything is invisible until it does, you're absolutely right I'm happy with red!

Re: Web fonts, boy, I don't know

#288

Post by amelius »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #7

I have had the exact experience in the last month. Being on a slow connection, I've come to loath web fonts. There is nothing wrong with them in general but it's just that they've come to symbolise over-indulgence and a myopia towards the users actual task-focused needs as opposed to aesthetics. Part of the issue is dealing with progressive enhancement as far as slow internet connections go. How do you solve that pro…

Why can't we share fonts between websites? I.e., put fonts on some shared CDN, and link to them directly. It could be similar to how different programs share code through shared-object files :)

A similar effect will probably be achieved with IPFS, where objects are stored by their hashes.

Re: Web fonts, boy, I don't know

#289

Post by dredmorbius »

mos_basik wrote: post #208
discreditable wrote: post #6

My feeling on web fonts is that that they can sometimes look nice but aren't worth the page weight. My approach is to pick two fonts I expect MacOS and Windows to have, then fall back to generic. Other times, I'm more lazy and just use the generic. To put it more bluntly: https://bestmotherfucking.website/#remote-fonts

>that link Nice. I was only familiar with the original one; I wasn't aware that there were more. It appears to be the most recent one? I was hoping to find a comprehensive list of this kind of site somewhere but didn't. I did find these by following some breadcrumbs: 1. http://motherfuckingwebsite.com/ [original] 2. http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com/ 3. http://evenbettermotherfucking.website/ 4. https://bestmothe…

And one more: https://codepen.io/dredmorbius/pres/KpMqqB

Re: Web fonts, boy, I don't know

#290

Post by edanm »

mslev wrote: post #4

For anyone missing the WW reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvr1T1sFvEg

If there are any other West Wing fans here (and apparently there are!), you have to check out The West Wing Weekly podcast. It's hosted by two people, one of them Joshua Malina, who played Will Bailey on WW, and is basically them recapping each episode, as well as interviewing people from the show or somehow relevant to the episode (e.g. senators, etc).

Seriously, if you love the West Wing, I can't think of any way that you won't love this podcast.

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