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Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

nytimes.com

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Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#241

Post by brokenmachine »

brokenmachine wrote: post #239
neotek wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which toxic drug are you suggesting is present in eliquid? You can't be talking about nicotine, since that's no more toxic than caffeine and is not carcinogenic.

frakr was implying that the ecigs are a gateway drug to cigarettes. Hardcore coffee addicts don't usually end up smoking coffee with 4000 other random addictive chemicals mixed in. And wrt your question, who knows what other chemicals are in ecig juice, as the ingredients seem to be completely unregulated.

That's odd, I can't reply to neotek. I didn't know there was a limit to the level of replies...

To neotek: No problem, it's easy to misunderstand people on the internet.

I do appreciate that vaping is probably safer than cigarettes, but that's a very low bar indeed...

Just because it may be (and who knows until there are long term studies), doesn't mean as a society we should be encouraging, or even allowing vaping.

At the very least I think there should be some kind of regulation around the ingredients, otherwise how can anybody say the vapor is safe for the inhaler and the people around them?

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#242

Post by syshum »

brokenmachine wrote: post #230
syshum wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a slippery slope, if you want to talk about products or activities that "harm society" Further then you have to define what "harm" it is doing. I also suspect part of that "harm" you talk about is Costs associated with healthcare that is paid for by the taxpayer, meaning you likely support government run socialized health services. I do not.

Are you seriously requesting an explanation of what harm cigarettes are doing to society? I suggest you have a trip to to a respiratory ward sometime.

I do not question the harm cigarettes do to individuals, but individuals make choices every day that cause harm to themselves. That is not a reason for government involvement

I do not believe it is my place to tell individuals what chemicals they can or can not consume

I am 100% against the War on Drugs as well, and believe that all drugs, including crack, cocaine, and all prescription drugs should be legal to buy if the person desires it.

I am an individualist, not a collectivist

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#243

Post by evgen »

mos_basik wrote: post #130
nsxwolf wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What stops you from becoming addicted to the e-cig for the same reasons?

Caveat: I've never smoked or vaped, but I have plenty of friends that do both. I think the idea is that when vaping, you are able adjust the level of nicotine you are consuming without having to adjust how often you engage in the physical act of vaping/smoking. The act is a comfortable ritual, a chance to take a break, step away, relax for a few moments, whatever. It's a habit itself, distinct from the nicotine depen…

One other point I have yet to see mentioned here that occurred to me when I made the switch from smoking cigarettes to vaping several years ago is that vaping also changed how I engaged in my smoking ritual.

A cigarette has become a somewhat expensive object. When I light it up I would finish it, or at least try to. If the time I had for my smoke break was short I would puff that thing hard to get it done in the time I had allotted. An e-cig can be used for a few puffs and then dropped back into my pocket with nothing wasted. I could be much lazier about how I smoked and as a consequence I tended to smoke less.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#244

Post by evgen »

brokenmachine wrote: post #238
totalZero wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 2016, cigarettes aren't cool anymore. I used to date a girl who used an ecig and would exhale a cloud of vanilla cookie aroma everywhere we went. I thought that was pretty cool to be honest.

It's 2016, being addicted to something that kills you (regardless of flavor), isn't cool anymore.

Interesting, except for the fact that nicotine is not carcinogenic and doesn't kill you. It is about as dangerous as caffeine, and we can look around us and see how uncool that dangerous substance has become over the past few decades...

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#245

Post by NTripleOne »

psyc wrote: post #102
NTripleOne wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a PG or VG sensitivity issue to me.

Is it more likely I developed sensitivity after 2 years, or switched types without realizing it? I liked all the other benefits of vaping.

I really don't know to be honest, if you're not paying attention it's pretty easy to accidentally buy the wrong mix and then end up with something that'll fuck your throat up for weeks.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#246

Post by NTripleOne »

FilterSweep wrote: post #65
NTripleOne wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also another outcome from this - the one where you turn into an insufferable 'vaper'.

What's insufferable about it exactly - that you are constantly espousing its "benefits" or that the people around you find it insufferable?

http://explosm.net/comics/4452/

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#247

Post by brandoncordell »

SpliffnCola wrote: post #199
SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mark up for juice at most vape stores is obscene, yet still manages to be cheaper than regular cigarettes. $15 for 30 mL at my local store, that lasts me on average 15 days. So it's still roughly half the price for a half pack a day smoker and 1/4 of the price for a pack a day smoker (assuming a very generous $5 a pack). If you mix your own juice you're approaching savings that are better on an order of magnitude…

I highly recommend Vapejoose, they have 120ml bottles for $23.99, sometimes $20, and they offer free shipping over $50. Three 120ml bottles last me close to an entire month. Local stores around here are also a rip-off (near Austin, Texas).

Also check out Rocky Top Vapor! 145ml for that price, and sometimes have sales where it's only $17 for 145ml. GREAT juice too. I love their Cereal Milk and Strawberry Fruit Chew flavors.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#248

Post by paulmd »

zamalek wrote: post #21
jrockway wrote: post #2

The reality is that tobacco taxes fund a lot of the government, and there is no replacement for that income source if people stop smoking cigarettes. Thus the tobacco companies are happy to lobby against e-cigarettes to protect their revenue stream and the government is happy to support them because it's their revenue stream too. It's unfortunate, because it's largely a tax on the poor. The rich can afford prescripti…

> Thus the tobacco companies are happy to lobby against e-cigarettes I saw this on Reddit a while back, someone pointed out that "we get it, you vape" was probably introduced by tobacco companies to create a stigma around the practice. I'm a quitting smoker, on vape (RBA) and it bloody works. If only there were such great tools for quitting other addictions.

In my experience the stereotype exists for a reason.

Let's take Grover Norquist as an example. The man is a dedicated crusader who hasn't stopped pounding the tax-reform drum for 20 years. Know what he thinks will decide the next election? Know what he was tweeting about during the debates?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/grover-norquist-2016-vap...

https://twitter.com/grovernorquist/status/780604428751630336

https://twitter.com/grovernorquist/status/780604428751630336

https://twitter.com/grovernorquist/status/785299905464111104

No, seriously: we get it, you vape.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#249

Post by jdietrich »

nialo wrote: post #222
jdietrich wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The metal content of e-cigarette vapour has been analysed; even for relatively crude first-generation devices, the metal content is well within established safe exposure limits. Stainless steel coils facilitate temperature-controlled vaporisation, which is a crucial advance in harm reduction. Controlling the temperature of vaporisation significantly reduces the production of aldehydes and aromatic hydrocarbons, which…

do you know anything about the wire temperature in these things? I looked at both links and didn't see any numbers outside the paywall. Another comment mentions a vapor temperature of Stainless or Kanthal at 500C or something should indeed be quite inert, it's just not that hot.

200C to 260C is the normal temperature range, measured at the coil. Temperature-controlled devices use the coil itself as the temperature sensor by continuously measuring the resistance of the coil. The device calibrates each coil at room temperature when it is first installed. Stainless steel has a sufficiently high temperature coefficient of resistance to measure temperature quite accurately. Kanthal doesn't work with this method, because by design it has a very low temperature coefficient of resistance.

Power-controlled devices rarely exceed 300C in normal use, because there is considerable airflow over the coil combined with evaporative cooling. Excessive temperatures can be reached if the device is inadvertently activated, or if the liquid flow to the coil is inadequate.

As you say, kanthal and stainless steel should be very stable at these temperatures. Pure titanium wire also works with temperature control and completely avoids the issue of chromium, but there is some debate over the potential risks of titanium dioxide nanoparticles.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#250

Post by acedinlowball »

thirdsun wrote: post #14

For anyone looking to quit smoking I can't recommend e-cigarettes enough. As a very passionate former smoker I got off the habit pretty much accidentally and without even trying in a timeframe of about half a year. And it actually started with the intend to find a cheaper alternative to expensive cigarettes without any desire to quit. The key is to steadily reduce the amount of nicotine in the liquid you're using. On…

I quit smoking without using e-cigarettes. It's actually really easy to quit to if you actually want to. e-cigarettes are a crutch that no one actually needs.

I acknowledge that not everyone will agree with me, but this is my opinion on the matter.

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