Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

nplusonemag.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 47 posts

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#11

Post by andreiw »

serg_chernata wrote: post #2

The first paragraph really spoke to me, because that is how I spent every summer for the first 14 years of my life. My family took a trip from Kiev to Yalta as a summer vacation. The joy and excitement mixed with hot, gross conditions of the train are spot on. I will forever hold onto those memories as some of my most precious. This year I went back to Kiev for the first time in well over a decade since I moved to th…

I am pretty sure that visiting Crimea would have been a safer option to visiting Kiev. Many, many Ukrainian citizens continue to visit the peninsula even today.

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#12

Post by rdtsc »

> They called the Tatars “heathens,” “uncivilized” and “warlike,” evoking old stereotypes about the Turks.

That resonated with me. My childhood is peppered with memories of Russians, who were bused in at some point by the Soviet Union to take over administrative positions, telling me to speak a "human" language - Russian instead of my native language (implying I was sub-human). I always remember that and am sad for them for living with that kind of prejudice (especially when you tell that to a child).

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#13

Post by serg_chernata »

andreiw wrote: post #11
serg_chernata wrote: post #2

The first paragraph really spoke to me, because that is how I spent every summer for the first 14 years of my life. My family took a trip from Kiev to Yalta as a summer vacation. The joy and excitement mixed with hot, gross conditions of the train are spot on. I will forever hold onto those memories as some of my most precious. This year I went back to Kiev for the first time in well over a decade since I moved to th…

I am pretty sure that visiting Crimea would have been a safer option to visiting Kiev. Many, many Ukrainian citizens continue to visit the peninsula even today.

This isn't something to have an argument over. However, while in Kiev I did not see a single armed person nor any signs of conflict. My visit was almost a month ago.

On the flip side, Crimean border is protected by armed forces on behalf of Russia and overall sentiment in the peninsula is not that favorable to Ukrainians.

Though I do agree that many still visit. My only point was that I did not feel comfortable.

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#14

Post by trhway »

drivers99 wrote: post #10
Asooka wrote: post #6

Can someone explain what is the meaning of "madeleine" here? Is it referring to the famous incident of "let them eat cake"? I'm not familiar with it being used to refer to anything other than food.

I think it's "one that evokes a memory": http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/madeleine That seems to be how it's used in the article and some of the comments here: "Crimea was the ideal site for this post-Soviet reunion, since it was the place where so many children, now adults, had spent their happy summer vacations, flocking there from all over the Soviet Union. For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic m…

>since it was the place where so many children, now adults, had spent their happy summer vacations, flocking there from all over the Soviet Union.

yes, Russian climate makes you yearn for hot climate vacation near sea and giving the Iron Curtain there weren't much options. These days Russians go en mass to Mediterranean : Turkey, Egypt, Greece, Chernogorya, Italy, Spain. Despite all the propaganda they aren't going to Crimea. As joke has it these days "it is so quiet on Crimea beaches that one can hear Russian tourists having drink party ("buhayuschih") on Egypt beaches"

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#15

Post by ptico »

andreiw wrote: post #11
serg_chernata wrote: post #2

The first paragraph really spoke to me, because that is how I spent every summer for the first 14 years of my life. My family took a trip from Kiev to Yalta as a summer vacation. The joy and excitement mixed with hot, gross conditions of the train are spot on. I will forever hold onto those memories as some of my most precious. This year I went back to Kiev for the first time in well over a decade since I moved to th…

I am pretty sure that visiting Crimea would have been a safer option to visiting Kiev. Many, many Ukrainian citizens continue to visit the peninsula even today.

Any examples of unusual unsafe conditions in Kyiv?

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#16

Post by RandomName2020 »

rdtsc wrote: post #12

> They called the Tatars “heathens,” “uncivilized” and “warlike,” evoking old stereotypes about the Turks. That resonated with me. My childhood is peppered with memories of Russians, who were bused in at some point by the Soviet Union to take over administrative positions, telling me to speak a "human" language - Russian instead of my native language (implying I was sub-human). I always remember that and am sad for t…

On the other hand, Soviets/Russians did not kill the native population of the republics on massive scale, did not have "sits only for white" in the public transit, had 15 republics where native languages had equal representation with Russian. Everything is relative.

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#17

Post by pilsetnieks »

RandomName2020 wrote: post #16
rdtsc wrote: post #12

> They called the Tatars “heathens,” “uncivilized” and “warlike,” evoking old stereotypes about the Turks. That resonated with me. My childhood is peppered with memories of Russians, who were bused in at some point by the Soviet Union to take over administrative positions, telling me to speak a "human" language - Russian instead of my native language (implying I was sub-human). I always remember that and am sad for t…

On the other hand, Soviets/Russians did not kill the native population of the republics on massive scale, did not have "sits only for white" in the public transit, had 15 republics where native languages had equal representation with Russian. Everything is relative.

> Soviets/Russians did not kill the native population of the republics on massive scale

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

> did not have "sits only for white" in the public transit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

> native languages had equal representation with Russian

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#18

Post by RandomName2020 »

pilsetnieks wrote: post #17
RandomName2020 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, Soviets/Russians did not kill the native population of the republics on massive scale, did not have "sits only for white" in the public transit, had 15 republics where native languages had equal representation with Russian. Everything is relative.

> Soviets/Russians did not kill the native population of the republics on massive scale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor > did not have "sits only for white" in the public transit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes > native languages had equal representation with Russian https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification

If you are from a Baltic country there is no point to argue with you, because the sentiment against Russia and everything Russian, for whatever reason, is so strong, that people celebrate Nazis as heroes, just because they against Russia. Holodomor was not a genocide against Ukranians, it was ideologically charged event, so it is not comparable to genocide gainst Native Americans, or lynching. "And you lynching Negroes" is more applicable to you line of argumentation than to mine; the way minorities were treated in post-Stalin USSR and America of 40-50-60s is absolutely incomparable, not even close. I myself grew up in former republic of USSR and can attest that Russian and the local language (let say Azerbaijani; may be it was a different one) had equal representation with Russian and all the position of local power were stuffed by the local ethnicities.

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#19

Post by CobrastanJorji »

drivers99 wrote: post #10
Asooka wrote: post #6

Can someone explain what is the meaning of "madeleine" here? Is it referring to the famous incident of "let them eat cake"? I'm not familiar with it being used to refer to anything other than food.

I think it's "one that evokes a memory": http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/madeleine That seems to be how it's used in the article and some of the comments here: "Crimea was the ideal site for this post-Soviet reunion, since it was the place where so many children, now adults, had spent their happy summer vacations, flocking there from all over the Soviet Union. For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic m…

This is also the reason that you sometimes find Madeleines flavored with earl gray tea. It's something of a literary joke about Proust, who helped make the cookies famous.

Re: The Kingdom of the Dead: For post-Soviet people, Crimea was a gigantic madeleine

#20

Post by patrickg_zill »

rdtsc wrote: post #12

> They called the Tatars “heathens,” “uncivilized” and “warlike,” evoking old stereotypes about the Turks. That resonated with me. My childhood is peppered with memories of Russians, who were bused in at some point by the Soviet Union to take over administrative positions, telling me to speak a "human" language - Russian instead of my native language (implying I was sub-human). I always remember that and am sad for t…

The Tatars, 300 years ago, were excellent warriors and horsemen.

They would raid the nearby Ukrainian and Russian villages and sell the villagers into slavery. In one year, 1769, they captured 20,000 and sold them in slave markets in the Ottoman Empire.

From 1500 to 1700 or so, between 1 and 2 million Slavs were captured and sold off into slavery.

The end of the Crimean Khanate is about as distant in history as the Revolutionary War that started the USA. Of course Tatars don't do this anymore, but some people unfortunately prefer to remember old grievances and raise them again and again.

Post reply on HN