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Why America Needs India’s Rockets

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Re: Why America Needs India’s Rockets

#41

Post by walshemj »

madmax108 wrote: post #17

Multiple friends who moved to the USA for their higher education (MS/PhD) in fields such as Aerospace Engg complain about the very tight regulations in the field. For many people, even being top of the class means coming back home, because companies like Boeing/ SpaceX etc have very tight US citizens only rules imposed on them. This is almost completely opposite to the Comp Sci. graduates who assimilate almost immedi…

Because a lot of those companies are involved in defence and national security (List X in uk terms) its probably impossible for non citizens to achieve the required security clearances.

Not so long ago in the UK you had to have both sets of grandparents as citizens to Join the civil service.

Re: Why America Needs India’s Rockets

#42

Post by user5994461 »

madmax108 wrote: post #17

Multiple friends who moved to the USA for their higher education (MS/PhD) in fields such as Aerospace Engg complain about the very tight regulations in the field. For many people, even being top of the class means coming back home, because companies like Boeing/ SpaceX etc have very tight US citizens only rules imposed on them. This is almost completely opposite to the Comp Sci. graduates who assimilate almost immedi…

You'll note that countries in Europe also require to be an European citizen for this line of work.

Re: Why America Needs India’s Rockets

#43

Post by exDM69 »

seren wrote: post #19
madmax108 wrote: post #17

Multiple friends who moved to the USA for their higher education (MS/PhD) in fields such as Aerospace Engg complain about the very tight regulations in the field. For many people, even being top of the class means coming back home, because companies like Boeing/ SpaceX etc have very tight US citizens only rules imposed on them. This is almost completely opposite to the Comp Sci. graduates who assimilate almost immedi…

A rocket is an intercontinental ballistic missile with a different flight plan. So every nuclear power want to stay ahead in the game.

I think the US is just adding a self-imposed constraint that hinders their own progress. Other nations have built ICBMs and have space launch capabilities too. The US is not significanltly "ahead in the game" and their development is slowed down by hiring US citizens only in the aerospace industry.

Not all rockets are practical as ICBMs. ICBMs tend to use storable (hypergolic) propellants so they can be maintained and ready to launch at short interval. Many space launch vehicles, such as those built by SpaceX, use cryogenic propellants and need to go through a time consuming (and dangerous!) propellant loading before they can be launched. (note: the Indian and the Chinese space programs use primarily solid fuel and hypergolic propellants)

I'm sure SpaceX, ULA and others would be happy to recruit non-US citizens if the regulations didn't disallow it.

Re: Why America Needs India’s Rockets

#44

Post by exDM69 »

user5994461 wrote: post #42
madmax108 wrote: post #17

Multiple friends who moved to the USA for their higher education (MS/PhD) in fields such as Aerospace Engg complain about the very tight regulations in the field. For many people, even being top of the class means coming back home, because companies like Boeing/ SpaceX etc have very tight US citizens only rules imposed on them. This is almost completely opposite to the Comp Sci. graduates who assimilate almost immedi…

You'll note that countries in Europe also require to be an European citizen for this line of work.

As far as I know, for jobs in the ESA, you must be a citizen of an ESA member nation (not the same as EU).

I'm not sure if there are similar restrictions to the US that apply to working aerospace industry jobs (say Airbus).

Re: Why America Needs India’s Rockets

#45

Post by exDM69 »

rdtsc wrote: post #9

> Since 2005, U.S. satellite manufacturers have been prohibited from hiring India's space agency to launch their equipment. So interestingly why not India then? > Indian Space Research Organization has consistently punched above its modest weight class, racking up a series of cheap and practical achievements. Aren't we using Russian RD-180 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-180 engines which also seemed to punch above…

The Indian space program has been using solid fuel rockets in most of their space launchers.

I'm not sure how that compares to the (liquid fueled) RD-180 in terms of efficiency, but it's a very different type of engine.

Re: Why America Needs India’s Rockets

#46

Post by perfectstorm »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #21
harichinnan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a long time ago. Now there are many companies and many jobs that pay a 100K USD in India. Also Indian software engineers get promoted really fast into management with vastly higher salaries.

ISRO salaries straight from glassdoor: Scientist/Engineer ₹802,100 Scientist/Engineer ₹798,473 So, 800k rupee is about $12,000 USD. NASA's avg engineer salary is 10x that. edit: NASA employees also get generous government benefits like pensions and such. Federal employee benefits are the envy of the nation. Not sure why you people are arguing against basic facts here. Salaries, cost of living, etc are a fraction in I…

the cost of living is much lower in India. $12,000 is a good chunk of money if you live in India.

Re: Why America Needs India’s Rockets

#47

Post by anichhangani »

rqebmm wrote: post #11
whack wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article mentions that we already buy rockets from China/Russia. It's hard to imagine India as a bigger security threat than either of those countries.

India is less a security threat than a destabilization threat. I'm sure the US is more worried about them firing nukes at Pakistan than California.

FYI: India doesn't need an "ICBM" to nuke pakistan.

Re: Why America Needs India’s Rockets

#48

Post by hyperbovine »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #39
rajathagasthya wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By assisting India you're paying for their ICBM development India is now part of MCTR (Missile Control Technology Regime) that limits ICBM development. So that's no longer a valid concern. Also, India has done well without the assistance of the US in space technology and will continue to do so. So if the US doesn't want to assist in technology, it's not going to be a show stopper for India. It will continue to eat…

> India is now part of MCTR (Missile Control Technology Regime) that limits ICBM development. So that's no longer a valid concern. That's regime sounds like a great intent, but the simple fact is that taking a satellite launching rocket, replacing the satellite with a nuke, and aiming it back at the ground somewhere is trivial.

It's doable, not trivial. Tying your shoe laces is trivial.

Re: Why America Needs India’s Rockets

#49

Post by avmich »

rdtsc wrote: post #9

> Since 2005, U.S. satellite manufacturers have been prohibited from hiring India's space agency to launch their equipment. So interestingly why not India then? > Indian Space Research Organization has consistently punched above its modest weight class, racking up a series of cheap and practical achievements. Aren't we using Russian RD-180 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-180 engines which also seemed to punch above…

> Aren't we using Russian RD-180 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-180 engines which also seemed to punch above their weight class. Allegedly it was hard it believe it was possible to run engine at that efficiency level.

I don't think professionals were that much surprized. George Sutton (author of an encyclopedia on the subject, https://www.amazon.com/History-Liquid-Propellant-Engines-Lib...) writes: "The history of liquid propellant rocket engines (LPREs) in the former Soviet Union is remarkable because they have developed a larger variety and a larger number of LPREs than any other nation and the number of their LPREs that have flown is considerably higher than that of any other country." http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/2.6943 So having RD-180 performing as they do could be rather expected.

Re: Why America Needs India’s Rockets

#50

Post by ksk »

pm90 wrote: post #2

On the one hand, its rather interesting to see the US, champion of free and open markets, enforce a policy so against that very principle. If I'm not mistaken, not only is US policy meant to assist the private space industry in the US, but to also avoid indirectly assisting the Indian missile/ballistic missile program. Although in India's defense the agency that develops/manages/deploys satellites (ISRO) is separate…

The US, like Britain and much of Europe has a long history of practicing economic protectionism. I wouldn't say its wrong one way or the other, but it is kind of hypocritical to say "Do as we preach, not as we did".
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