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Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

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41–50 of 269 posts

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#41
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I also highly recommend e-cigarettes, your story is of course the ideal picture of how it should go. But it might not go that easy for everyone: even with the use of it I'm having a hard time to quit the actual cigarretes completely and it's not due to the nicotine (in fact I do not know what exactly still makes me crave for those hand-rolled cigarettes). Also nicotine can be a pleasant drug to use. Which is li…

I'm not sure why the goal is quitting. Nicotine itself isn't the problem with cigarettes, it's just a stimulant and has the usual stimulant effects. If you have high blood pressure or trouble sleeping, probably not a great drug to use. But the same can be said of coffee, which is perfectly legal. https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine is interesting reading. Of course, e-cigarette liquid is not only nicotine, so who knows wh…

For whatever little it's worth, and appologies if you knew this already: Kanthal wire should be generally more 'inert' than stainless at high temperatures. The aluminum in Kanthal forms a tougher and more temperature resistant oxide layer than the nickel in typical stainless steel.

(I actually used Kanthal wire sold for DIY vaping things professionally at one point, in a ~1200C heater in vacuum. It's not inert enough in those conditions, sadly)

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#42
post #19

For anyone looking to quit smoking I can't recommend e-cigarettes enough. As a very passionate former smoker I got off the habit pretty much accidentally and without even trying in a timeframe of about half a year. And it actually started with the intend to find a cheaper alternative to expensive cigarettes without any desire to quit. The key is to steadily reduce the amount of nicotine in the liquid you're using. On…

While I also highly recommend e-cigarettes, your story is of course the ideal picture of how it should go. But it might not go that easy for everyone: even with the use of it I'm having a hard time to quit the actual cigarretes completely and it's not due to the nicotine (in fact I do not know what exactly still makes me crave for those hand-rolled cigarettes). Also nicotine can be a pleasant drug to use. Which is li…

Rolling cigarettes feels good. E-cigarettes allow you to keep all of your addictive habits and mannerisms other than rolling, and it's all of those habits that are the addiction; you're physically off nicotene in a couple of weeks, and you're mentally off within a month or two. I was once able to roll a cigarette while riding a bike; now I have a skill that I'll never use again.

I'm creeped out by whatever's in e-cigs. I'm don't know why everyone is so sure that constantly inhaling propylene glycol for years on end is safe, or that all that's in that mystery imported off-brand liquid is propylene glycol. I of course find it extremely likely that it's less unhealthy than smoking.

I quit through using Swedish snus. I think it was crucial that snus isn't fun, and gives you nothing to do with your hands. To gradually wean off nicotene, just leave the portions in longer. Twenty-year smoker, two-year snuser, four years tobacco-free.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#43
post #23

Do e-cigarettes really have a reputation as a 'menace'? I've never heard anyone express any significant concern about them on an individual level (certainly nowhere near as much as about traditional cigarettes), and yet I've read countless news articles decrying them. It seems odd.

On an individual level, I find them nearly as obnoxious as normal cigarettes even without tobacco in them and someone is just smoking "perfume" around (why bother at that point?). I have allergy sensitivities to aerosols and perfumes and strong smells and just about any smoking tends to infuriate me.

I see so many people use e-cigarettes as an excuse to smoke indoors, even in light of public smoking bans, and get upset when I complain that they make me feel sick. Indoor air quality isn't just about carcinogens or aerosolized tobacco, but allergens and respect for common spaces that we all have to share.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#44
I wonder about the culture around vaping. From my observations, pretty much everyone I see doing it is young and from appearances seem to be counter-culture. Doesn't mean they're bad people, but if they're the only one doing it, it doesn't make it mainstream.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#45
post #37
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I remember correctly, cold turkey has worse rates for initial quitting but the lowest rates of people returning to smoking for those who "made it"

IIRC it has to do with the anguish of quitting - if you went through the difficulty and pain of quitting cold turkey you probably don't want that to be for nothing

Sunk cost strikes again? This time for good.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#46
post #44

I wonder about the culture around vaping. From my observations, pretty much everyone I see doing it is young and from appearances seem to be counter-culture. Doesn't mean they're bad people, but if they're the only one doing it, it doesn't make it mainstream.

It also leads to the vape being classed in the same breath as "neckbeard" and "fedora"... which is unfortunate as hell for people just trying to quit cigarettes. The problem is, the person who quietly vapes out of sight and mind doesn't make an impression. The guy with a fedora and a neckbeard who's blowing huges clouds of vapor in a public space makes a lasting and terrible impression.

At the end of the day though, if you're a smoker, the choice is pretty straightforward, and you should use a "vape". You should however, be considerate of others, and unfortunately also accept that for a while you're going to be lumped in with the more anti-social element of society.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#47

How do you know they are safer? My understanding was that many ingredients, particularly for flavored formulas are proprietary and unknown.

I make my own unflavored VG/PG e-juice. I buy the nicotine separately. I don't like the idea of inhaling flavors. I just want the nicotine.

But yes, you are correct. A lot of the flavors are not regulated. I recall there was an issue with a carmel like flavor recently.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#48

For anyone looking to quit smoking I can't recommend e-cigarettes enough. As a very passionate former smoker I got off the habit pretty much accidentally and without even trying in a timeframe of about half a year. And it actually started with the intend to find a cheaper alternative to expensive cigarettes without any desire to quit. The key is to steadily reduce the amount of nicotine in the liquid you're using. On…

Same here. It was a little bit of a challenge to switch over at first since the existing devices at the time (maybe 3-4 years ago) weren't very effective. Still, at one point while dealing with yet another lingering cough/cold due to smoking, I just said screw it, bought a better vaporizer, and stopped smoking.

The nicotine delivery is less immediate and not as strong so for someone used to the immediate dose delivered by smoking, it sort of left me wanting more but at the same time, it was a much less intense "craving" than a smoker would feel when forced to abstain.

A big part of it for me was adjusting to this. Smoking delivers a large, immediate dose of nicotine which then drops off in your bloodstream over the course of the next half hour or hour, when (predictably) you sort of want another cig. With the vaporized nicotine solution, I had to get used to just having a puff every so often throughout the day (more like hookah I guess) and maintaining a more constant but lower blood level.

Anyway, maybe I'm overanalyzing it. The results were the same though. It was as much getting off the roller coaster of "dose, levels drop, crave, redose" and onto a more sustained but lower level. It made it much easier to go without and it made it easier to lower the nicotine in the liquid to the point where I keep some 3mg/ml stuff around for the occasional desire for a mild stimulant but otherwise, it was practically effortless to wean off.

Aside from just lowering my nicotine intake and habituation to something more along the lines of how I really could go for a coffee some mornings, stopping the constant deposit of tars and particulates into my respiratory system has made a huge impact on my general health. No more lingering colds and honestly I haven't had a major cold or other respiratory infection in years now. I used to get them all the time thanks to the constant irritation and level of crap I was inhaling.

And another cool thing is that I know exactly what's in the stuff I'm inhaling occasionally now. I can get MSDS sheets for the flavorings and the rest is just nicotine and a couple types of glycerine (like you'd use in a fog machine or asthma inhaler). The levels of anything potentially harmful are a miniscule fraction of what they'd be if I was smoking cigs still and I'm no longer getting the vast majority of harmful compounds or carbon monoxide at all.

I really hate to come off as a "booster" and I try not to be the guy who just has to tell you about "his vape" but I think this sort of anecdotal experience is appropriate and on-topic in threads like this. I think it's a real shame that something with maybe 1-2% of the risk of smoking has been so demonized and lobbied against when it's a bigger improvement than methadone for heroin addicts or AA for alcoholics.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#49
This is purely anecdotal but I have made the switch almost a year ago, also by "accident" after buying a starter kit to see what this thing was people around me started doing. Without actively trying to quit I just was not interested in regular cigarettes shortly after and managed to lower my nicotine content from 24mg to 6mg and am now planning to go lower with the next batch of liquid that I will order.

This was after many failed attempts to quit from around a pack a day with the longest cessation time being around half a year.

I don't think that vaping is harmless and I would not be surprised there are adverse long time health risks. But compared to real cigarettes this was a godsend for me. It is much cheaper, it does not have that disgusting smell, and it is much easier from the logistics side compared to having to buy cigarettes every day, feeling like some lowlife addict in the process. What I have now is a hobby, tinkering with my devices, building coils, trying juices (since some time I got rid of any flavours and just vape pure VG/PG). Gone is most of the shortness of breath when working out, disgusting mouthfeel in the morning, cold hands and feet and this permanent feeling of being poisoned. I gave my father a starter-kit for Christmas and he managed to quit cigarettes completely on that very day after heavily smoking for 30 years, trying to quit and suffering from the effects of smoking much more than a relatively young person does. I might have saved his life that day.

So yes, maybe vaping is bad, maybe it will kill you when you are not able to quit timely. But the time spend with the addiction is a whole lot more pleasant with vaping than with cigarettes and I cannot imagine it being remotely as deadly as smoke/tar. Banning vaping because of unknown health risks is complete madness in my opinion.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#50
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I realize this often isn't the case, but the pursuit of taxing specific behaviors is supposed to only be used to fund things caused by that behavior: That is only for the press release.. It is never actually that way. Almost all taxation applied to a general fund, meaning all taxes are simply put in a large pool, then various programs are funded from that pool. There are almost never any actual legal rules that req…

> all taxes are simply put in a large pool > I never support using taxation for social control Yes, money is fungible, and so gas tax, alcohol tax, and cigarette taxes collected may not be applied to covering the costs of that activity. Even putting it in a specific fund doesn't completely fix the problem, it only establishes a minimum support for that fund's target. Make gas tax specifically fund road surface repair…

> Taxation is definitely an effective tool for social control. Do you have an alternative? Or do you suggest that government should not be involved in social control?

I hope you can appreciate why some people would say the answer to that second question is "as little as possible."

When the government is offering carrots and sticks, there will inevitably be some group of people systemically discriminated against (either by not receiving the carrots proportionally or disproportionately receiving the stick). Tyranny of the majority and what not. The gears of government grind very slowly, and changing government policies often results in multiple generations of people experiencing discrimination before things are changed.

For a recent example, one argument (among others, of course) for same-sex marriage equality is that it's discriminatory for same-sex partners not to receive the carrots of legal and tax benefits that come with being married.

Is there an alternative? Maybe. Maybe not. I could spitball one, but it would likely be an inadequate solution. Still, I think it's prudent to be careful. Social control is a double-edged sword.

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