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Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

nytimes.com

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Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#11

Post by LoSboccacc »

adrianN wrote: post #8
jrockway wrote: post #2

The reality is that tobacco taxes fund a lot of the government, and there is no replacement for that income source if people stop smoking cigarettes. Thus the tobacco companies are happy to lobby against e-cigarettes to protect their revenue stream and the government is happy to support them because it's their revenue stream too. It's unfortunate, because it's largely a tax on the poor. The rich can afford prescripti…

Why can't people who can't afford cigarettes stop? Is nicotine gum that much more expensive than cigarettes?

preliminary research suggest 50% of people is dumber than average.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#12

Post by Veen »

adrianN wrote: post #8
jrockway wrote: post #2

The reality is that tobacco taxes fund a lot of the government, and there is no replacement for that income source if people stop smoking cigarettes. Thus the tobacco companies are happy to lobby against e-cigarettes to protect their revenue stream and the government is happy to support them because it's their revenue stream too. It's unfortunate, because it's largely a tax on the poor. The rich can afford prescripti…

Why can't people who can't afford cigarettes stop? Is nicotine gum that much more expensive than cigarettes?

I tried to quit with gum and it's just not a good replacement. It tastes foul, made my mouth and throat feel unpleasant, and does nothing for the "habit" part of the addiction. Vaping worked much better for me.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#13

Post by legulere »

saurik wrote: post #4
jrockway wrote: post #2

The reality is that tobacco taxes fund a lot of the government, and there is no replacement for that income source if people stop smoking cigarettes. Thus the tobacco companies are happy to lobby against e-cigarettes to protect their revenue stream and the government is happy to support them because it's their revenue stream too. It's unfortunate, because it's largely a tax on the poor. The rich can afford prescripti…

I realize this often isn't the case, but the pursuit of taxing specific behaviors is supposed to only be used to fund things caused by that behavior: that way if some people are costing the government money, they pay the price rather than all of society, making everyone's incentives align. If those people stop doing the thing, then the cost is gone and the government should not care that they aren't collecting the mo…

> the pursuit of taxing specific behaviors is supposed to only be used to fund things caused by that behavior

At least in Germany that's not the case. State income from taxes is not earmarked. Other fees like the mandatory television licence might be.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#14

Post by thirdsun »

For anyone looking to quit smoking I can't recommend e-cigarettes enough. As a very passionate former smoker I got off the habit pretty much accidentally and without even trying in a timeframe of about half a year. And it actually started with the intend to find a cheaper alternative to expensive cigarettes without any desire to quit.

The key is to steadily reduce the amount of nicotine in the liquid you're using. Once you aren't using nicotine any longer all that is left is the social ritual and habit of going out for a smoke, which isn't a very convincing reason after a while. Soon you'll forgot to take your e-cigarette with you one day - you'll use it less and less. Until it simply doesn't matter any longer.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#16

Post by Synaesthesia »

syshum wrote: post #7
saurik wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize this often isn't the case, but the pursuit of taxing specific behaviors is supposed to only be used to fund things caused by that behavior: that way if some people are costing the government money, they pay the price rather than all of society, making everyone's incentives align. If those people stop doing the thing, then the cost is gone and the government should not care that they aren't collecting the mo…

>>I realize this often isn't the case, but the pursuit of taxing specific behaviors is supposed to only be used to fund things caused by that behavior: That is only for the press release.. It is never actually that way. Almost all taxation applied to a general fund, meaning all taxes are simply put in a large pool, then various programs are funded from that pool. There are almost never any actual legal rules that req…

I have no problem with taxes on harmful products like tobacco and alcohol since they are a harm to society and a burden on society.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#17

Post by Semaphor »

adrianN wrote: post #8
jrockway wrote: post #2

The reality is that tobacco taxes fund a lot of the government, and there is no replacement for that income source if people stop smoking cigarettes. Thus the tobacco companies are happy to lobby against e-cigarettes to protect their revenue stream and the government is happy to support them because it's their revenue stream too. It's unfortunate, because it's largely a tax on the poor. The rich can afford prescripti…

Why can't people who can't afford cigarettes stop? Is nicotine gum that much more expensive than cigarettes?

Before switching to ecigs, I tried to quit with gums, nicotine patches, and herbal cigarettes. They did nothing for me (to be fair, the first time I tried ecigs, the crappy 2009 models, they didn't help either).

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#18

Post by Shivetya »

jrockway wrote: post #2

The reality is that tobacco taxes fund a lot of the government, and there is no replacement for that income source if people stop smoking cigarettes. Thus the tobacco companies are happy to lobby against e-cigarettes to protect their revenue stream and the government is happy to support them because it's their revenue stream too. It's unfortunate, because it's largely a tax on the poor. The rich can afford prescripti…

The tobacco companies are adept at adapting to the market. I would suspect they all either have e-cig products out or are in the process of doing so. As far as taxes, the US has one of the most progressive tax schemes in the world and income is not a major wealth point for many Americans (though it does beget a ton of jealousy)

Not to go too far off track. The real tax on the poor isn't cigarettes, for the poor and stupid its lottery tickets. The real tax on the poor are the vast amount of licensing and related fees that they cannot escape. It is distressing how many lower income jobs have ridiculous fees attached let alone the costs of doing business with every day government interaction. Then throw in all the fees of everyday life and boom, your hurting.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#19

Post by stinos »

thirdsun wrote: post #14

For anyone looking to quit smoking I can't recommend e-cigarettes enough. As a very passionate former smoker I got off the habit pretty much accidentally and without even trying in a timeframe of about half a year. And it actually started with the intend to find a cheaper alternative to expensive cigarettes without any desire to quit. The key is to steadily reduce the amount of nicotine in the liquid you're using. On…

While I also highly recommend e-cigarettes, your story is of course the ideal picture of how it should go. But it might not go that easy for everyone: even with the use of it I'm having a hard time to quit the actual cigarretes completely and it's not due to the nicotine (in fact I do not know what exactly still makes me crave for those hand-rolled cigarettes). Also nicotine can be a pleasant drug to use. Which is likely why I know several people who've been vaping for years and have a hard time quitting, or even just don't want to quit. But they did quit smoking so that's a huge win already of course.

Re: Safer to Puff, E-Cigarettes Can’t Shake Their Reputation as a Menace

#20

Post by jrockway »

stinos wrote: post #19
thirdsun wrote: post #14

For anyone looking to quit smoking I can't recommend e-cigarettes enough. As a very passionate former smoker I got off the habit pretty much accidentally and without even trying in a timeframe of about half a year. And it actually started with the intend to find a cheaper alternative to expensive cigarettes without any desire to quit. The key is to steadily reduce the amount of nicotine in the liquid you're using. On…

While I also highly recommend e-cigarettes, your story is of course the ideal picture of how it should go. But it might not go that easy for everyone: even with the use of it I'm having a hard time to quit the actual cigarretes completely and it's not due to the nicotine (in fact I do not know what exactly still makes me crave for those hand-rolled cigarettes). Also nicotine can be a pleasant drug to use. Which is li…

I'm not sure why the goal is quitting. Nicotine itself isn't the problem with cigarettes, it's just a stimulant and has the usual stimulant effects. If you have high blood pressure or trouble sleeping, probably not a great drug to use. But the same can be said of coffee, which is perfectly legal.

https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine is interesting reading.

Of course, e-cigarette liquid is not only nicotine, so who knows what the long term effect of that is. The chromium in the heating coils worries me personally. (Kanthal and stainless steel both contain chromium. Obviously stainless steel is designed to be relatively inert, so maybe it's OK. Titanium is another option, and is implanted in the body regularly. But things are different at high temperatures.)

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