Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

British Government loses Article 50 court fight

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 316 posts

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#41

Post by lmm »

emp_zealoth wrote: post #33
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MP's are in a hard place because of this. The majority of them are pro-remain, having concluded that brexit is damaging and dangerous and cannot result in a better deal. ... but they will be whipped into line by government (Tory) and party leadership (Labour) insisting that they follow the settled will of the clear majority of the people ... but the will of the people is neither settled nor a clear majority.

How can they be whipped into pary line? Isn't the worst that can happen to them exclusion from said party?

"Whip" is a term of art here.

Yes, they could choose to leave the party. Even if they don't feel any duty to said party or to the constituents they're representing (who, realistically, voted on party lines, despite nominally voting for an individual representative), that still means leaving their whole career behind. I would be extremely surprised if we saw more than a handful of MPs do it.

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#42

Post by andysinclair »

throwawayReply wrote: post #6

Despite the ruling being kept under-wraps until 10:00, looking at GBP/USD it started rising at 09:20 suggesting it leaked at that time.

Services PMI was released at 9:30 which caused a small move up, then around 10 when the A50 ruling was announced there was extreme volatility. I can't see any indication of a leak.

Overall I can't see Parliament voting to remain, the ruling has only really delayed he process. It may result in a "softer" Brexit, maybe this is why the GBP has risen?

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#44

Post by jlangenauer »

agd wrote: post #12

For those who don't follow British politics this is very significant. - Invocation of Article 50 is likely to be delayed from Q1 as the legislation will go through parliament and the (hostile) House of Lords. - A 'hard' Brexit is less likely due to incoming amendments from remainer MPs and Lords It also increases the chances of a general election before Article 50 is invoked if the PM feels that MPs will force too ma…

The problem is, of course, that how "hard" Brexit is, is not really up to the UK, or its parliament.

It'll depend what sort of deal the rest of the EU is willing to strike, and unless either the UK is willing to compromise on allowing free movement of people, or the EU is willing to compromise on the indivisibility of the "four freedoms" - neither of which seems likely - then the Brexit is, in fact, going to be quite hard.

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#45

Post by elcct »

midgetjones wrote: post #38
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MP's are in a hard place because of this. The majority of them are pro-remain, having concluded that brexit is damaging and dangerous and cannot result in a better deal. ... but they will be whipped into line by government (Tory) and party leadership (Labour) insisting that they follow the settled will of the clear majority of the people ... but the will of the people is neither settled nor a clear majority.

I really wish they'd stop calling it a "clear majority". I'm not sure when 52-48 was ever such.

But whatever they call it, it is majority indeed and that's the democracy - you either accept that majority wins or well... don't know

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#46

Post by Khol »

cmdkeen wrote: post #20

Mrs May has a 14 point lead in the polls and justification to call an election were Parliament to block Article 50. Given the current state of the opposition, their leader, and the fact that many Labour seats voted Leave it is a pretty safe bet that the Conservatives could end up with a 100+ majority. The key thing comes down to what "block Article 50" means. If the Government decide to not give ground during the Par…

The issue here is that Theresa May cannot call a general election.

The Fixed-term Parliament Act means that the only ways to call an early general election are if parliament passes a motion of no confidence in her majesty's government or a two thirds majority of MPs passes a motion to bring an early general election.

(A third alternative would be to repeal the act.)

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#47

Post by pja »

midgetjones wrote: post #38
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MP's are in a hard place because of this. The majority of them are pro-remain, having concluded that brexit is damaging and dangerous and cannot result in a better deal. ... but they will be whipped into line by government (Tory) and party leadership (Labour) insisting that they follow the settled will of the clear majority of the people ... but the will of the people is neither settled nor a clear majority.

I really wish they'd stop calling it a "clear majority". I'm not sure when 52-48 was ever such.

Unfortunately it was a clear result, but not a decent majority. Makes life difficult for everyone...

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#48

Post by nicolapede »

michaelt wrote: post #31
nicolapede wrote: post #15

I think it was quite arrogant from Theresa May to decide not to involve the Parliament in the first place. People did not give a blanket mandate to her for implementing whatever she thinks Brexit means.

The article says parliament will get a vote on whether to invoke Article 50. As I understand things, there was a vote on leaving the EU, and the UK voted to leave. And as I understand things, there's only one way to leave the EU, and that's by invoking Article 50. Seems to me that means there was a referendum on whether to invoke Article 50, and people voted to invoke it. Why should MPs get to block the referendum re…

And if Theresa May thinks that taking back board control is worth leaving the single market, can she do that, just because of the referendum?

People also gave Tories majority in the Parliament and Tories' manifesto committed to stay in the single market.

>As I understand things, there was a vote on leaving the EU, and the UK voted to leave. And as I understand things, there's only one way to leave the EU, and that's by invoking Article 50.

You are interpreting people's reasoning here, as Article 50 was not mentioned in the referendum (another option to leave the EU is to declare war to it, is that what they voted for, then?) and as I understand things, in UK, that is the Parliament's job.

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#49

Post by return0 »

They should have opted for elections long ago to give the electorate the responsibility to choose both leaving and who will take them out.

I wonder if it is possible however for either Tories or Labours to go with a believable pro-brexit stance in the polls. Ideally one would take the "in" stance and the other the "out", the point is who is with what?

Re: British Government loses Article 50 court fight

#50

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

michaelt wrote: post #31
nicolapede wrote: post #15

I think it was quite arrogant from Theresa May to decide not to involve the Parliament in the first place. People did not give a blanket mandate to her for implementing whatever she thinks Brexit means.

The article says parliament will get a vote on whether to invoke Article 50. As I understand things, there was a vote on leaving the EU, and the UK voted to leave. And as I understand things, there's only one way to leave the EU, and that's by invoking Article 50. Seems to me that means there was a referendum on whether to invoke Article 50, and people voted to invoke it. Why should MPs get to block the referendum re…

and people voted to invoke it Because apparently that's not how the UK system of government works. Parliament has a sovereignty different than that of the people.
Post reply on HN