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Why a federal high-tech start-up is a money loser

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Why a federal high-tech start-up is a money loser

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took a couple of experiences dealing with serious, fancy pants designers to convince me that most of them are charlatans. Even something as simple as widening a button was stonewalled by "explorations", "design strategy meetings", "pattern library meetings", etc. The end result was getting even a single component mocked up took at least a week and was no better than what I could have come up with in 30 minutes.

Quite a few UX/design people who have actually gone through education/training (as opposed to learning by doing) seem to suffer by an extreme form of process overload. It makes sense I guess. It's really easy to teach processes and it probably makes the them feel "professional".

I don't want to blame UX people entirely for that. Designers have often had to elbow their way in to traditional software processes. One way to do that is by looking impressive to executives. It's sort of an extreme version of Calvin's clear plastic binder. [1]

I think it's made worse by the ubiquity of the agency business model for designers. Consulting agencies are forced to learn learn looking impressive and process-y as a vital sales tactic. It's not just design, either. Software consulting agencies have the same problem; if your clients can't directly evaluate your work, then you end up getting judged on what the people hiring you can understand. And that's often how well you dress, how glibly you talk, and how impressive your process seems.

[1] http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1989/10/31

Re: Why a federal high-tech start-up is a money loser

#82
post #25

I don't care if 18F makes money, and in some cases it may make sense for them not to. In a perfect market, they would be able to sell their services at the same price as the value of those services. So if they build a system for the Veterans Administration (VA) that saves $1 million, they should get $1 million for it. Their EOY revenue would reflect their value created. But they are actually selling to themselves. Th…

Ultimately, the issue is whether 18F is more effective than other means and accurate accounting is important to that end.

Let's say that the VA gets bids to create a new system for something. 18F says they can do it for $900k and ContractorX says they can do it for $1M. 18F gets the contract and produces a system that cost the VA $900k. Let's say the system cost taxpayers an additional $1M that isn't billed to the VA. That means that taxpayers are out $1.9M rather than $1M going with ContractorX. The issue can be that 18F isn't accurately pricing their services and hiding the actual cost to the taxpayer.

That isn't to say that I like contractors. I don't. But the point of 18F should be to prove that the government can create its own digital services at a lower cost than contractors. If they're "cheaper" in that they're charging agencies less, but then just taking money from a slush fund to cover the fact that they're not efficient, that's not a good thing.

Also, price being "value created - effort to get paid" isn't a good metric. You need to look at alternatives. If a system saves $1M, but you could pay one source $100k for it and another source $900k, you want to go with the $100k source. If we had to pay the value created for things, we'd stop a lot of economic activity. In fact, why would the VA want to do anything at all given that they're going to be charged the full value of any savings? 18F shouldn't be credited with $1M in savings if they spent $900k to achieve it when a contractor could have done it for $100k.

The value of 18F is if they can produce digital services better than other methods. Other methods are generally paying some non-governmental company for the services or hiring direct employees for the agency. In order to determine if 18F is a good model, they need to charge agencies enough to cover their costs. Otherwise, it's ridiculous. Someone in Health and Human Services would say, "we could hire people to do this project directly, but then we'd be paying 100% of their cost, but with 18F they'll charge us a fraction of the employees cost. In fact, we'll tell them to hire the dozen people we were going to hire and we'll only pay X% of the salary rather than 100%".

Plus, if agencies don't have to pay the full cost, they'll do projects that don't make sense. Let's say that a project for the VA creates $1M in savings. 18F says they'll do it for $900k. The VA green-lights it to save $100k. Great, right? $100k for spending on other things. But 18F actually spends $2M on the project. The VA gets another $100k in their budget, but the government is actually down $1.1M. When people see situations like this, they want to take advantage of it since they're able to basically spend other people's budgets. "If you use 18F, a bunch of the money for your project doesn't come from your budget," is the kind of thing higher-ups dream of.

I think 18F will get better at this. Figuring out how much one needs to charge is hard since it's hard to know exactly how much effort a project will take. I'm guessing that 18F is looking to generate good-will with agencies rather than going back to them with cost over-runs. Still, 18F needs to prove that it's a more effective way than alternatives and it can't do that by just under-charging and subsidizing whatever projects they get given. If 18F just offered free services, then every agency would want infinite 18F work (since it isn't coming out of their budget). Then which projects should be worked on? The ones 18F finds interesting? 18F wasn't created to be the arbiter of what the government should do. As such, they need to price accurately based on their costs. They will get better at this. They will likely have to start passing along cost over-runs to agencies. But if they get great, motivated people, they could provide digital services at a lower cost - it just has to actually be a lower cost.

Even if you hate contractors, a lot of agencies have tens of thousands of employees. Health and Human Services has ~80,000 employees. The VA has ~313,000 employees. Why shouldn't they just hire an engineering team? Why should they outsource a project to 18F? Agencies that large certainly have enough engineering projects to keep an internal team busy. They're not some restaurant that outsources their website because they don't have enough work to keep a dev busy. Well, maybe 18F can gain efficiencies through hiring better people at higher pay who can create better code and re-use stuff across agencies. Or maybe the overhead of outsourcing outweighs those efficiencies. That's something important to figure out and it's an answer that we can get closer to if 18F accurately charges agencies.

Re: Why a federal high-tech start-up is a money loser

#83
post #32
post #25

I don't care if 18F makes money, and in some cases it may make sense for them not to. In a perfect market, they would be able to sell their services at the same price as the value of those services. So if they build a system for the Veterans Administration (VA) that saves $1 million, they should get $1 million for it. Their EOY revenue would reflect their value created. But they are actually selling to themselves. Th…

>In a perfect market, they would be able to sell their services at the same price as the value of those services. Uh nope. A perfect market means the price is equal to their costs, not the value provided. A monopoly is when you can extract the value provided as rent.

Zero economic profit is greater than costs.

Re: Why a federal high-tech start-up is a money loser

#84

Hi Silicon Valley! Thanks for visiting our nation's capitol! kisses, DC -- Seriously, this shouldn't be surprising. It's a noble effort, the work is probably worth the so-called "losses", but the reason the government is the government and not Silicon Valley is that in government, there are a bajillion rules to keep you from screwing up too badly. There's been a fetishization in DC of Silicon Valley techniques, but 1…

It is people that make the difference, not the place or techniques.

Re: Why a federal high-tech start-up is a money loser

#85

FTA: > “Since its launch in March 2014, 18F has struggled financially,” says GSA’s Office of Inspector General (IG), citing loses every year, now totally over $31.6 million. And from a random site that seems to agree with a few others: > In fiscal year 2015, military spending is projected to account for 54 percent of all federal discretionary spending, a total of $598.5 billion In 3 years 18F has spent 31.6 million.…

I don't get your point at all, I'd say the US's ability to project force is worth 19,000x a year more to me than what 18F does.

I will take cynicism out of this equation and still disagree. Highlevel the ability to strike & defend the country (not simply project) is hugely important. However, having a technically proficient group building tooling to increase efficiency, speed, transparency and collaboration-- not to mention technical security, is certainly important. So yes, I would like a more efficient government && hope we can leverage technology to improve it.

Is 18F delivering on this? I don't know, but it is conceptually much more important than 1/19000th of military spending.

Re: Why a federal high-tech start-up is a money loser

#86
post #82
post #25

I don't care if 18F makes money, and in some cases it may make sense for them not to. In a perfect market, they would be able to sell their services at the same price as the value of those services. So if they build a system for the Veterans Administration (VA) that saves $1 million, they should get $1 million for it. Their EOY revenue would reflect their value created. But they are actually selling to themselves. Th…

Ultimately, the issue is whether 18F is more effective than other means and accurate accounting is important to that end. Let's say that the VA gets bids to create a new system for something. 18F says they can do it for $900k and ContractorX says they can do it for $1M. 18F gets the contract and produces a system that cost the VA $900k. Let's say the system cost taxpayers an additional $1M that isn't billed to the VA…

"Let's say that the VA gets bids to create a new system for something. 18F says they can do it for $900k and ContractorX says they can do it for $1M. 18F gets the contract and produces a system that cost the VA $900k. Let's say the system cost taxpayers an additional $1M that isn't billed to the VA. That means that taxpayers are out $1.9M rather than $1M going with ContractorX."

If the government is paying itself $900k from one department to another, how are they out $1.9m?

Re: Why a federal high-tech start-up is a money loser

#87

Activities that can’t be billed to other agencies are another drain. One example is staff time totaling 727 hours on a logo change. The old logo was a blue square with 18F in the lower-right-hand corner. The new logo, a black square with 18F centered and a different font, wasn’t worth the time and doesn’t look as good. for anyone else curious: (new) Black Logo: https://18f.gsa.gov/assets/img/logos/18f-logo.svg (old)…

That's almost unbelievable. This is completely absurd, on par with the mythical $800 government toilet seat, except that this cost us taxpayers far more. I'm completely disgusted. This is textbook fraud, waste, and abuse. By the way, like a friend suddenly shaving off all of their hair, I consider a corporate logo change to be a harbinger of bad things to come.

> ...on par with the mythical $800 government toilet seat, except that this cost us taxpayers far more.

Sorry to burst your disposable consumer-centric bubble, but not all toilet seat applications are optimized for profitability at economies of scale.[1][2]

[1] http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3134/3086233389_568cac502b_z.j... [2] http://pics-about-space.com/space-shuttle-toilet-seat?p=1

Re: Why a federal high-tech start-up is a money loser

#88
post #7

One example is staff time totaling 727 hours on a logo change. The old logo was a blue square with 18F in the lower-right-hand corner. The new logo, a black square with 18F centered and a different font, wasn’t worth the time and doesn’t look as good. How is that even possible?

I think the Washington Post pretty badly mischaracterized the original findings, which were as follows:

"18F Branding – Staff spent 727 hours (valued at an estimated $140,104) developing the 18F brand. An example of one of their branding projects is the 18F logo change, seen below in Figure 8. "

It was 727 for all branding activities and the logo was just one of them. And that's over a period of almost 2 years. Doesn't strike me as unreasonable, especially in the early stages.

Re: Why a federal high-tech start-up is a money loser

#89

Governments can never provide value like this, government is not a business! Sometimes this trade off is worthwhile. I'd like to have my housefire put out in a timely fashion. I will sacrifice some of my income for this. However, the idea that the government can become some kind of silicon valley startup is just absurd. I can't believe as taxpayers we are forced at gunpoint to fund these ridiculous ideas. And people…

I believe the idea is less that "the government can become some kind of silicon valley startup" and more that "the government can get tech projects done without involving outside contractors who deliver shit product and charge absurdly high consulting fees"

The big consulting firms have zero interest in encouraging good quality development. They will happily sell you another SAP/whatever system that has a few features that match whatever some set of inexperienced managers say they want, and then spend the next five years customising it for every request.

They get paid on the number of hours, and the number of hours goes up the more complicated something is, so they have zero problem with the number of stakeholders and meetings and revisions going up, because they bill all of that back.

A department like 18F can potentially have a leadership role and say that things should be developed in certain ways (like API standards) and using modern tooling that works across a wider range of devices/browsers/etc.

Re: Why a federal high-tech start-up is a money loser

#90
post #44
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In a perfect market, they would be able to sell their services at the same price as the value of those services. Uh nope. A perfect market means the price is equal to their costs, not the value provided. A monopoly is when you can extract the value provided as rent.

Sorry, I meant in this case, since they are a monopoly. Good clarification!

I don't think they are a monopoly. Other agencies can pay outside firms as an alternative to using 18F, can't they?

I'm not exactly sure how it works so please educate me.

I also separately heard that 18F wasn't supposed to bid against outside firms for government contracts. That doesn't really make sense, then, if they're supposed to earn revenue. If they're expected to earn revenue then they should be able to bid for government contracts.

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