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Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

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Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#51

It may depend on the specific area of technology. I do phone screens and sit on interview panels (software company, retail point-of-sale), and I pretty much never pay attention to the education portion of the resume. For me it's all about what you've done and what you can do at my company.

Full disclosure: I'm a drop out, myself. 27 years into my career, I've never regretted it.

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#52
I'm 10 classes short of a BS in computer science. I started working more and taking one class a semester. At some point I really didn't care about school anymore, my resume was working just fine. I got tired of paying for classes that taught me what I already learned or classes that didn't apply. I cashed out my associates and haven't looked back. I still haven't needed those chem classes. There are places I can't work because of my choices, but at the same time I haven't wanted to work at those places. I can't go get an MBA, but I don't want one.

I have friends and family that seem to thrive on going to school and can't imagine why I don't. It isn't the same for everyone. In my case, I don't think it has hurt me. I've always had a job, always felt like I could quickly get another job and I make good money.

From the hiring side, despite my "lack" of education, I've had the chance to interview quite a few people. There have been some with masters degrees that I would only be comfortable hiring as a junior dev. They had books smarts but zero experience. Some of them could have had the job if their asking price wasn't insanely high or they had some experience.

I also interviewed a self taught programmer who I'd work with in a heartbeat. It didn't work out for other reasons, but he could have easily had the jr. job and likely grown out of it with more experience.

Formal education opens some doors that experience will not, but I think there are plenty of opportunities with and without a formal education.

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#53

When I've been involved in hiring, neither of these mattered as much as if the person could show their knowledge of the relevant subjects we were hiring for in the application/resume/letter & then in the interview.

I always like to ask people what side projects they work on, what new tech they'd like to play with if they had time. Even if they dream of starting some project, but never do, that is a good sign for me. I've had some people answer that with blank stares. All I can think is they don't love to create, code or solve problems. Every good dev I've worked with has a project or at least talks about something they'd like to build, fix or improve. If a person loves to code and learn and will fit with a team - good enough for me.

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#54

We care, first and foremost, about what you can _do_ with whatever experience and education you have. Education matters to the extent that it makes you a better developer than the other candidates. For example, did you take a DSP course and learned it well? That enables you to pursue jobs that require DSP knowledge. Experience matters to whatever extent that you can demonstrate that you accomplished something signifi…

"...learned and grew from it". That reminds me of a guy I interviewed who rated his skills in language x a 10 out of 10. He didn't get the job because he couldn't back that up when discussing code. I'd say he was a 5, maybe a 6.

Fast forward 3 years. I'm at a different job and interviewing again - same guy. I'm not sure he recognizes me, but I know where I last saw him. I tried very hard to forget the last interview and give him a fair shake, but it was a repeat! I was sure he hadn't learned a thing in 3 years. The same types of questions were still a mystery to him. If I left an interview not knowing something and feeling like that kept me from getting a job, I'd go home and learn it. In this case the main language for both jobs was the same. Oh, in the end, he did figure out this interview was a repeat.

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#55
I've taken up to third year compsci, dropped out due to money and decided to go the certificate route (had about 6 at one time). I've applied to about 200+ places and easily passed all 'pre-interview' tech/programming questions and it usually goes good until the actual supervisors review my education, most just hammered on the fact that I did not have a degree and thus was somehow subpar.

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#57
In the IT industry in general (programmers, sysadmins, etc.), formal education isn't quite as hard a requirement as it is in other fields or industries -- often because so many of us are mostly "self-taught".

For example, I would be more likely to hire someone with no formal education (beyond, say, high school) and four years of relevant, "in the trenches" experience over someone with zero real-world experience and a degree whose ink is still wet (and I have done that just, FWIW).

That's not to say that a college education is a waste; it's absolutely not, of course. You'll learn things there that you typically won't learn on the job (algorithms, etc.) and the networking and connections you make there can be extremely beneficial later on as well.

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#58
post #45

If you have little or no work experience, then your prospective employer will focus on your education. Once you have more experience, then that is what matters the most. Some advice: internships and engineering coops are really great ways to get experience in your field, while getting that magical degree.

Counteradvice: I do not think Co-Ops are a good idea. Tying yourself to a 3-4 year commitment is directly counter to what I consider the big advantage of work/study. I had friends who badly wanted to leave their Co-ops, but were bullied by advisers into not doing so. You aren't just padding your resume, you're also getting a feel for the different paths in your career you could pursue. I had 3 different Internships f…

At my Uni, engineering co-ops were just internships were you got paid, there was no commitment term. This is to differentiate from "traditional" internships, were you probably didn't get paid to work. But all this was 20 yrs ago, so things could have changed ;-)

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#60
A college education helps get you noticed, but experience will help back you up. In the end, you are the one who gives your own degree value. It comes with a set value itself, but your personality and experience add to it. I have a degree in psychology and absolutely no regrets for getting that degree, but I'm a web developer, web designer, software engineer. I use psychology all the time. We all do. I have a friend who spent a few months in college and hated it, but he has been a programmer for about 20 years. He has a confident personality and easily negotiates his salary. He knows what he wants and he goes for it. Last time I asked him, he's making around $100k a year as a software developer with no college degree. So it is possible to simply have the experience, but you need to back it up with confidence and the ability to prove it.

My initial experience as a programmer was a self-taught and that logic and experience has stuck with me with everything. It definitely is like a muscle and you just learn from your mistakes and only get stronger with every new program you write.

I rely more on my college degree for people to take me seriously, but I have spent the past 5-6 years building a professional portfolio and a base of clients, including acquiring recommendations on LinkedIn -- which is probably the most useful feature LinkedIn has. It really does help to have that as people can see those client websites and their testimonials. It definitely has paid off.

No regrets on the college degree.. and most companies do require it for them to even notice you nowadays.. my experience in college was awesome and made me who I am today. I fell in love.. got my heart broken... I learned a lot.. made friends who I still keep in touch with today, and its just a time in my life that was good. I would love to go back for my Master's degree, but at this time, I'm at a good place in my life, with a great job -- a career I want to call it that I love and could see myself doing for the next 30 years.

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