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Joining a Startup Out of College is Hard (A Solution)

azeem.fm

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Re: Joining a Startup Out of College is Hard (A Solution)

#11

Post by azeemansar »

jmm wrote: post #9
azeemansar wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see it as a complaint. I'm just mirror-ing what I hear from a lot of people I went to school with; I work at a startup now and I love it. But I know that to attract the "ivy league" talent, or any talent for that matter, it is ideal to appeal to what they know. And frankly, I think there is more than enough "wealth" distributed amongst VC funds to subsidize some portion of a kid's student loans for a y…

This is a bigger issue than simple exposure. Students studying finance/econ at Ivy League schools are on a track that starts early (our author, I assume, applied directly to Penn's Wharton School). The expectations and goals start in high school then, sometimes earlier. It's hard to get away from those expectations and pressure, and students emerge at the end of the conveyor belt onto Wall Street before they even kno…

VERY much agree with this; why didn't I have a Sequoia-backed high school startup program? VCs/angels are the ones with the money to support this; forget about the gov't doing it, that's bound for disaster. And maybe these do exist somewhere, maybe in SF.

Great point; I'll talk about this more in a follow-up post someday. (BTW, I didn't go to Wharton, I studied math and physics @ Penn, with full intention of becoming a research professor)

Re: Joining a Startup Out of College is Hard (A Solution)

#13

Post by azeemansar »

gyardley wrote: post #6

There's deeper issues not addressed by this article - why we've created a culture that so highly values 'brand-name resume builders', for one. And I'd argue that startup compensation needs to be rational even when competing sectors are not. But there's real potential in using the prestige (deserved or not) of a venture-capital firm as a recruiting tool. As an aside, I hired Azeem at my startup after his post-college…

Heh, thanks Greg. I may have not expressed it clearly, but when I say "compensation", I mean something that compels the talent you're hiring away from other industries. I think something like student loan subsidies could be very doable for a VC fund with hundreds of millions of dollars in capital. It sends a strong and serious signal IMO.

I think that's what it's really about, the messaging. It's just easier to market the names of a lot of these VC funds and the experience/track record/millions of $s that come with them, than it is to market their portfolio cos. It's a better hook; and on the other side of it all, venture funds SHOULD care about developing junior talent, and actively building the next generation of founders, entrepreneurs, etc etc. I just can't possibly imagine how any of this ends up being a bad thing.

Re: Joining a Startup Out of College is Hard (A Solution)

#14

Post by dgabriel »

gamble wrote: post #8

For most people, joining a startup as an employee straight out of college is a pretty bad career move these days. Your first job has an enormous effect on what options will be available to you down the road. A brand-name company like Google on the resume will open doors that a (likely failed) startup no one has ever heard of simply won't. You can always join a startup or found your own company later. Prior to the dot…

Nah. It depends on what kind of career you want to go into, but the very best time to get into a startup is straight out of school. You don't have a family, or a house, or any of the other baggage that necessitates a steady paycheck and solid job security.

What kind of opportunities do you think you're passing up? If Google or Apple or Microsoft want you, you can always go back and reapply after your start up experience. Interesting doors open all the time.

My first 4 jobs were with startups, my career is fine, even though almost no one has ever heard of the tiny awesome companies I helped to build. I have little kids that need me around, so I found a steadier job in more established organization (which took exactly one resume, and one interview), but I plan on going back into the start up world when they're older.

Re: Joining a Startup Out of College is Hard (A Solution)

#15

Post by garply »

Joining a startup out of college is not hard. As I grew up, I went through the educational funnel to these types of jobs (McKinsey, Google, etc) and I found myself disliking the people around me and (especially in the case of finance / manage consulting) disliking the work they were going to dedicate their lives to.

So I just never applied to work at companies I found distasteful. It was quite easy.

Re: Joining a Startup Out of College is Hard (A Solution)

#16

Post by azeemansar »

garply wrote: post #15

Joining a startup out of college is not hard. As I grew up, I went through the educational funnel to these types of jobs (McKinsey, Google, etc) and I found myself disliking the people around me and (especially in the case of finance / manage consulting) disliking the work they were going to dedicate their lives to. So I just never applied to work at companies I found distasteful. It was quite easy.

But you didn't straight out of college, which is my point.

I am in the same boat as you.

Re: Joining a Startup Out of College is Hard (A Solution)

#17

Post by pw0ncakes »

This is the solution: a program where talented young people are mentored by the VC firm, under the condition that they work for startups (as founders or early employees) for the next 7 years. The VC does not necessarily fund their startups, but uses its contacts to ensure that the founder remains employed and able to survive. At the end of the 7th year, employee has the option of joining the VC firm as entrepreneur-in-residence.

People would be less afraid of the career risk involved in starting companies this way.

Re: Joining a Startup Out of College is Hard (A Solution)

#18

Post by potatolicious »

azeemansar wrote: post #4
madair wrote: post #3

This seems more like a complaint from ivy league college grads about lack of wealth in the technology sector compared to the finance sector. Color me unimpressed.

I don't really see it as a complaint. I'm just mirror-ing what I hear from a lot of people I went to school with; I work at a startup now and I love it. But I know that to attract the "ivy league" talent, or any talent for that matter, it is ideal to appeal to what they know. And frankly, I think there is more than enough "wealth" distributed amongst VC funds to subsidize some portion of a kid's student loans for a y…

> "passion is a big part of it"

Right, and having known a lot of the "Wall Street" type engineers in college, I'm not sure if I really want them in my field.

Yeah, they're smart and bright (you kind of have to be in those environments), but I know more than a few who went into engineering position at major investment banks - soul-crushing, mind-numbing work that it is solely because of the compensation.

Maybe this is me being too startupy-self-important, but that speaks to a complete lack of passion, that you're willing to take on the IT equivalent of coal mining, where the only real upside to your job is the gigantic paycheck. On this side of the divide I'd rather have people who place an utmost importance in the, well, work of their work - someone who will take a high-paying, rewarding position over a ludicrous-paying soul-crushing job.

This isn't some justification to pay people less - if we can sweeten the pot for new grads I'm all for it, but I'm not sure I really want to attract Wall Streeters to our side of the industry.

Re: Joining a Startup Out of College is Hard (A Solution)

#19

Post by azeemansar »

potatolicious wrote: post #18
azeemansar wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see it as a complaint. I'm just mirror-ing what I hear from a lot of people I went to school with; I work at a startup now and I love it. But I know that to attract the "ivy league" talent, or any talent for that matter, it is ideal to appeal to what they know. And frankly, I think there is more than enough "wealth" distributed amongst VC funds to subsidize some portion of a kid's student loans for a y…

> "passion is a big part of it" Right, and having known a lot of the "Wall Street" type engineers in college, I'm not sure if I really want them in my field. Yeah, they're smart and bright (you kind of have to be in those environments), but I know more than a few who went into engineering position at major investment banks - soul-crushing, mind-numbing work that it is solely because of the compensation. Maybe this is…

Agree with a lot of what you're saying, but not all of it; I want whatever it takes to build amazing new companies that change the world, I don't really care who's doing it, as long as more phenomenally smart people are.

Re: Joining a Startup Out of College is Hard (A Solution)

#20

Post by azeemansar »

pw0ncakes wrote: post #17

This is the solution: a program where talented young people are mentored by the VC firm, under the condition that they work for startups (as founders or early employees) for the next 7 years. The VC does not necessarily fund their startups, but uses its contacts to ensure that the founder remains employed and able to survive. At the end of the 7th year, employee has the option of joining the VC firm as entrepreneur-i…

That's a cool idea! I don't know if it works with that timing, and those constraints, but that's such a cool idea, just conceptually.
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