Ask HN: Experience vs. Education? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#41

Post by verisimilidude » Wed, Nov 02, 2016, 5:53 PM UTC

douche wrote: post #18

Beware the educated idiot. I was working with an old carpenter friend of my father's last weekend, and he was telling me a story about a guy he apprenticed with. The man didn't complete 8th grade, and could barely do arithmetic, but was a master mason and carpenter. He was once tasked with taking apart a good-sized sawmill and reassembling it on another site; he spent a day walking through the existing plant, looking…

At my last job, I worked with someone who had a PhD from an elite university. This person came across as very smart, had a great smile and an easy demeanor that made friends of everyone. But I'm hard-pressed to remember a single accomplishment or even lesson learned on the job. Training was a total non-starter, just blank stares, and I'm not alone in this assessment. It's like this person was just a professional job hopper.

So is that person the idiot, or were we the idiots for falling for the act?

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#42

Post by whoops1122 » Wed, Nov 02, 2016, 5:56 PM UTC

pascalxus wrote: post #32

Most employers prefer work experience over education. But, right now, there's such large oversupply of labor and talent in Software engineering, they typically require both. Hiring at kabam, Even in the bay area, we had a large supply of candidates who had bachelors and masters degrees in computer science. Unfortunately, that's the minimum bar now. A master's in CS will help you get a job as a software engineer, just…

you dont take the CS class to learn a language... you do it to learn the concept of programming and how computer "ticks". CS education is not suppose to train a coder, but a capable person who can adapt the new language, concept or technology and run with it.

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#43

Post by psyc » Wed, Nov 02, 2016, 5:56 PM UTC

nicktelford wrote: post #7

While experience is generally valued more highly than education, it's worth remembering that many companies (in particular, the big, popular ones like Google, etc.) often have an education requirement irrespective of experience.

Which big popular companies have an education requirement? Google definitely does not.

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#44

Post by JeremyMorgan » Wed, Nov 02, 2016, 5:58 PM UTC

douche wrote: post #18

Beware the educated idiot. I was working with an old carpenter friend of my father's last weekend, and he was telling me a story about a guy he apprenticed with. The man didn't complete 8th grade, and could barely do arithmetic, but was a master mason and carpenter. He was once tasked with taking apart a good-sized sawmill and reassembling it on another site; he spent a day walking through the existing plant, looking…

A little confusing because this person is clearly not an idiot.

We have all seen the educated idiot though. Big degree from fancy university we've all heard of, gets great positions without effort, produces nothing and screws up things and blames it on others. Very hard to spot from a resume, a little easier in interview phase.

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#45

Post by rustyfe » Wed, Nov 02, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC

prefect42 wrote: post #3

If you have little or no work experience, then your prospective employer will focus on your education. Once you have more experience, then that is what matters the most. Some advice: internships and engineering coops are really great ways to get experience in your field, while getting that magical degree.

Counteradvice: I do not think Co-Ops are a good idea. Tying yourself to a 3-4 year commitment is directly counter to what I consider the big advantage of work/study. I had friends who badly wanted to leave their Co-ops, but were bullied by advisers into not doing so.

You aren't just padding your resume, you're also getting a feel for the different paths in your career you could pursue.

I had 3 different Internships for 3 different companies, and although that added a decent amount of stress (an annual job hunt) to my college career, I 100% recommend it.

I worked for a medium sized team at Georgia Tech's Research Institute, was the first hire at a startup, and worked DoD contracts for BAE, a defense contractor.

Those are all extremely different, and I not only built a resume that served me well in a variety of interviews, but also learned things I absolutely did not want to do.

However, your principal point, that work/study is a good idea, I wholeheartedly agree with.

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#46

Post by JSeymourATL » Wed, Nov 02, 2016, 6:15 PM UTC

How do you want to live professionally? What's your long-term vision?

Gatekeepers, especially corporate HR flunkies are trained to screen for academic pedigree. A solid credential helps open the door.

Owners/Founders/Hiring Executives mostly look for experience and intelligence. Does this guy understand my world? Can he help solve our problems?

Find a way to pursue both goals. Get a part-time/flex-time job while completing your degree requirements.

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#47

Post by TheMog » Wed, Nov 02, 2016, 6:38 PM UTC

I never completed my CS bachelor's degree and despite 25+ years experience as a professional developer and development manager, I still run into (usually large) companies that will immediately filter out my resume due to the lack of a degree. OTOH I have managed to get jobs that on paper required a master or PhD - it all depends on the company.

When I hire people I look for the right combination of theoretical knowledge and successful practical application of said knowledge. Personally I don't care if you got the theory part from watching videos of MIT lectures and reading books, or from a classroom.

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#48

Post by huherto » Wed, Nov 02, 2016, 6:47 PM UTC

In may change as you get older. Think about these scenarios.

After 4 years. What is better 4 years of experience vs 4 years of education?

After 8 years. What is better 8 years of experience vs 4 years of experience + 4 years of education ?

After 12 years. What is better 12 years of experience vs 8 years of experience + 4 years of education ?

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#49

Post by ThePawnBreak » Wed, Nov 02, 2016, 7:07 PM UTC

throwaway2016a wrote: post #17

Higher education is what you make of it. I spent every moment I wasn't working on class work working on side-projects. So I killed two birds with one stone. If you do college right (go above and beyond class work, absorb everything) you can come out with the equivalent of ten years experience in four but if you do it wrong (coast by) you can come out with negative return. College also exposed me to a lot I wouldn't h…

That's because the Phd's who can write great code work for Google and Facebook.

Re: Ask HN: Experience vs. Education?

#50

Post by paulmooreparks » Wed, Nov 02, 2016, 7:12 PM UTC

It may depend on the specific area of technology. I do phone screens and sit on interview panels (software company, retail point-of-sale), and I pretty much never pay attention to the education portion of the resume. For me it's all about what you've done and what you can do at my company.