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Darling – MacOS translation layer for Linux

darlinghq.org

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Re: Darling – MacOS translation layer for Linux

#81

Post by stuaxo »

zanny wrote: post #49
jernfrost wrote: post #33

I am hoping that with cross platform Swift we can start seeing more libraries to help us port Mac apps to Linux. I am a Mac developer but I'd love to make stuff available on Linux. I really like Linux as a backup plan, in case Apple totally drops the ball on professionals on the Mac. The Linux desktop is getting pretty good, but it lacks well designed high quality GUI applications. If porting to Linux was done easier…

> it lacks well designed high quality GUI applications. If porting to Linux was done easier that could change. Fundamental to most peoples complaints about desktop Linux applications is the lack of look and feel cohesion across all permutations of distro, desktop, and toolkit. Wine applications using the Windows APIs look like complete garbage and fit in nowhere. The same would be true of OSX Cocoa apps - they wouldn…

If you theme them, then they look quite a bit less terrible.

There is a clearlooks theme that makes things quite a bit more bareable.

Re: Darling – MacOS translation layer for Linux

#82

Post by woodrowbarlow »

api wrote: post #77
peatmoss wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I go back and forth on whether this would truly be useful. 10-15 years ago, having a fully baked, first class, slavishly source compatible implementation of GNUstep with broad adoption throughout Linux land would have likely been a game changer. But now, it seems webified apps are king. The handful of native apps that people use are already satisfactorily implementable on Linux. In fact, a great number of native apps…

I wrote a blog post once about how the web is the new presentation layer for the desktop, that this is not necessarily a bad thing, and that a desktop OS (e.g. a Linux distro) should just fully embrace it by implementing a desktop that runs 100% via web technologies. Local and remote web apps could coexist as first class citizens, etc. I basically argued that HTML+JS+CSS renderers are the new X and that HTTP(S) is th…

While I agree with your view of HTML+CSS+JS in relation to X and would even go as far as to say the shift towards "webified" apps is (mostly) a good thing, it still saddens me as a developer to see it happening. It's an ecosystem that doesn't discourage lazy practices and it makes me feel unimportant because modern computers can more or less keep up with even the most poorly-written webified apps. I think it's that sentiment that caused the lash-out you describe.

But hey, that's why I'm in embedded development. That field is still safe for now.

Re: Darling – MacOS translation layer for Linux

#83

Post by mirekrusin »

stuaxo wrote: post #81
zanny wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it lacks well designed high quality GUI applications. If porting to Linux was done easier that could change. Fundamental to most peoples complaints about desktop Linux applications is the lack of look and feel cohesion across all permutations of distro, desktop, and toolkit. Wine applications using the Windows APIs look like complete garbage and fit in nowhere. The same would be true of OSX Cocoa apps - they wouldn…

If you theme them, then they look quite a bit less terrible. There is a clearlooks theme that makes things quite a bit more bareable.

Quick googling "material theme gtk" returns this which looks very nice actually https://github.com/nana-4/Flat-Plat

Re: Darling – MacOS translation layer for Linux

#84

Post by witty_username »

zanny wrote: post #49
jernfrost wrote: post #33

I am hoping that with cross platform Swift we can start seeing more libraries to help us port Mac apps to Linux. I am a Mac developer but I'd love to make stuff available on Linux. I really like Linux as a backup plan, in case Apple totally drops the ball on professionals on the Mac. The Linux desktop is getting pretty good, but it lacks well designed high quality GUI applications. If porting to Linux was done easier…

> it lacks well designed high quality GUI applications. If porting to Linux was done easier that could change. Fundamental to most peoples complaints about desktop Linux applications is the lack of look and feel cohesion across all permutations of distro, desktop, and toolkit. Wine applications using the Windows APIs look like complete garbage and fit in nowhere. The same would be true of OSX Cocoa apps - they wouldn…

Using KDE the theme is pretty similar even for GTK apps.

Re: Darling – MacOS translation layer for Linux

#85

Post by peatmoss »

api wrote: post #77
peatmoss wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I go back and forth on whether this would truly be useful. 10-15 years ago, having a fully baked, first class, slavishly source compatible implementation of GNUstep with broad adoption throughout Linux land would have likely been a game changer. But now, it seems webified apps are king. The handful of native apps that people use are already satisfactorily implementable on Linux. In fact, a great number of native apps…

I wrote a blog post once about how the web is the new presentation layer for the desktop, that this is not necessarily a bad thing, and that a desktop OS (e.g. a Linux distro) should just fully embrace it by implementing a desktop that runs 100% via web technologies. Local and remote web apps could coexist as first class citizens, etc. I basically argued that HTML+JS+CSS renderers are the new X and that HTTP(S) is th…

I am truly sorry you caught the brunt of the toxic parts of the Linux community. It's a part of the community that has existed since I first started using Linux in the mid 90s. It sounds like you offered some thoughts about what you felt was the right thing to do, and people reacted violently to it.

I personally wish we had a first class, broadly adopted Free *nix desktop option with native GUI and the like. I am not necessarily a fan of extending the web to all parts of my computing experience. However, what you described is very much what is happening with Chromebooks--so maybe your normative statements about the Linux desktop just required the implementation and backing by a Google.

That all said, I wouldn't write off desktop Linux along with the caustic communities you've found. I did a career switch to urban planning some years ago now, and what I've discovered is that every community has a majority group of mostly reasonable, mostly disengaged people along with a smaller group of really loud, difficult people. In that sense, Linux user communities feel normal to me.

Re: Darling – MacOS translation layer for Linux

#87

Post by witty_username »

api wrote: post #77
peatmoss wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I go back and forth on whether this would truly be useful. 10-15 years ago, having a fully baked, first class, slavishly source compatible implementation of GNUstep with broad adoption throughout Linux land would have likely been a game changer. But now, it seems webified apps are king. The handful of native apps that people use are already satisfactorily implementable on Linux. In fact, a great number of native apps…

I wrote a blog post once about how the web is the new presentation layer for the desktop, that this is not necessarily a bad thing, and that a desktop OS (e.g. a Linux distro) should just fully embrace it by implementing a desktop that runs 100% via web technologies. Local and remote web apps could coexist as first class citizens, etc. I basically argued that HTML+JS+CSS renderers are the new X and that HTTP(S) is th…

Why do you need a desktop running 100% via web technologies? What's the advantage of that? BTW, IIRC KDE uses JS for some Qt stuff and GTK uses CSS for themes.

How is HTTPS even close to X11 protocol? That's like saying a car engine can function as a steering wheel.

BTW /r/linux is not all Linux users.

Re: Darling – MacOS translation layer for Linux

#88

Post by rimantas »

jernfrost wrote: post #33

I am hoping that with cross platform Swift we can start seeing more libraries to help us port Mac apps to Linux. I am a Mac developer but I'd love to make stuff available on Linux. I really like Linux as a backup plan, in case Apple totally drops the ball on professionals on the Mac. The Linux desktop is getting pretty good, but it lacks well designed high quality GUI applications. If porting to Linux was done easier…

To have high quality GUI Swift is not enough. You'd need to have AppKit ported, and a bunch of Core* (CoreImage, etc.) stuff. In short—not going to happen.

Re: Darling – MacOS translation layer for Linux

#89

Post by rimantas »

Philipp__ wrote: post #54
lholden wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Linux for that. I have a pretty and modern UI, all of the unix commodities I want... all on a brand new and powerful laptop that has plenty of battery life. (My last laptop... a Samsung Series 9... would last 14+ hours on a charge. My current laptop is a bit more power hungry... but it has a fairly beefy i7 and such. It still gets me through the day though) It's just a matter of momentum... and Apple certainly…

Wow, that is impressive battery life. I am curious, what Linux distributions you used? (especially for those back in the 90s :D) I was stuck on Gentoo than Arch for the most of the time.

Probably just MakingStuffUp.iso
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