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IBM building Blue Brain (full brain neuron simulator)

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Re: IBM building Blue Brain (full brain neuron simulator)

#21

Post by SuperThread »

tx wrote: post #16
SuperThread wrote: post #11

Why am I the only person who's terrified rather than excited by every new incremental progression of AI? Do you guys actually look forward to the day when humans are made obsolete? PS: This scientist seems to be exponentiating incorrectly. In ten years he'll have 32-ish times as much processing power; he needs 10 million times as much to get to the level of the entire brain.

Every time mankind makes a major breakthrough it makes entire families of professions obsolete. This gives us opportunities to move onto more advanced forms of keeping ourselves busy. Most of the time when people ask about "obsolete humans" in context of AI, they really mean "programmers" or "doctors" or whatever. Yes, it might. It simply means that there are professions to be invented that will be to programmers as…

But once AI becomes more intelligent than humans, every conceivable role will definitionally be better filled by that AI than by actual humans.

Re: IBM building Blue Brain (full brain neuron simulator)

#22

Post by hugh »

nsrivast wrote: post #5
michaelneale wrote: post #3

I watch with great interest. Is this how general AI will happen? or is it more like heavier then air flight was: we will get there, we just need to understand the fundamentals of what makes AI better.

I doubt it. Our modeling capabilities continue to develop much faster than our knowledge of how the brain works. Of course, neural network modeling can still be of great use. Since we've more or less figured out how the brain does a variety of low-level processing tasks (like coordinating muscle movements, finding the visual depth and texture of observed surfaces, etc.), this knowledge can serve as a starting point f…

I agree. I suspect that scaling up a simulation of a neuron and expecting it to act like a brain is a bit like scaling up a simulation of an iron atom and expecting it to act like a car.

Re: IBM building Blue Brain (full brain neuron simulator)

#23

Post by s3graham »

Awesome (in the archaic sense) that the size estimate is only 200x what Google has currently. Seems trivially within reach in, what, only 8 doublings of performance? They guess at 10 years for "one machine", so what, 15-20 years before it's pda size/priced? An extra full-real-thinking-feeling-creating-art-type-brain in my laptop?! Holy shit.

I was actually just wondering why this project wasn't happening yet while reading "The Singularity is Near". If you haven't read it, I recommend it. It's hella dry and boring in parts, but overall worth reading if only to make you think about what a startup might look like in only 5 or 10 years.

Re: IBM building Blue Brain (full brain neuron simulator)

#24

Post by albertcardona »

pchristensen wrote: post #2

This is amazing - a complete simulation of a section of cortical column. And by complete, it's 400 subsimulations per neuron . Outstanding! Thanks IBM!

Take the results with some salt. No matter how fascinating the results, if the model is wrong then there is no advancement in our knowledge of the brain.

As far as I know, they did not go the long and hard way of actually reconstructing a cortical column from sectioned tissue (as in electron microscopical imaging of serial sections of 60 nanometers in thickness).

What they have done, even if remarkable, is "simply" a simulation of a network built from statistical data gathered from many different studies of cortical columns.

Re: IBM building Blue Brain (full brain neuron simulator)

#25

Post by jmelesky »

SuperThread wrote: post #21
tx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time mankind makes a major breakthrough it makes entire families of professions obsolete. This gives us opportunities to move onto more advanced forms of keeping ourselves busy. Most of the time when people ask about "obsolete humans" in context of AI, they really mean "programmers" or "doctors" or whatever. Yes, it might. It simply means that there are professions to be invented that will be to programmers as…

But once AI becomes more intelligent than humans, every conceivable role will definitionally be better filled by that AI than by actual humans.

Your argument assumes that greater intelligence implies greater fitness for all jobs. I'm pretty sure there are jobs for which intelligence is not the primary requisite.

Re: IBM building Blue Brain (full brain neuron simulator)

#26

Post by tim2 »

nsrivast wrote: post #20
greendestiny wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's entirely possible we'll develop general AI without understanding consciousness or even some of the other functions of the brain.

Why?

No no, the burden is on the person who claims something "impossible." You have no basis to claim that what he said is impossible.

Re: IBM building Blue Brain (full brain neuron simulator)

#27

Post by dusklight »

SuperThread wrote: post #11

Why am I the only person who's terrified rather than excited by every new incremental progression of AI? Do you guys actually look forward to the day when humans are made obsolete? PS: This scientist seems to be exponentiating incorrectly. In ten years he'll have 32-ish times as much processing power; he needs 10 million times as much to get to the level of the entire brain.

Anyone watching the new TV show "Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles"?

It seems to me, whether or not to be scared about the progress of AI, depends on a very simple question.

Should we treat AI like our slaves, or should we treat AI like our children?

Re: IBM building Blue Brain (full brain neuron simulator)

#28

Post by tx »

SuperThread wrote: post #21
tx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time mankind makes a major breakthrough it makes entire families of professions obsolete. This gives us opportunities to move onto more advanced forms of keeping ourselves busy. Most of the time when people ask about "obsolete humans" in context of AI, they really mean "programmers" or "doctors" or whatever. Yes, it might. It simply means that there are professions to be invented that will be to programmers as…

But once AI becomes more intelligent than humans, every conceivable role will definitionally be better filled by that AI than by actual humans.

Great. In simple terms it means that machines will do all the work and we'll drink all the beer.

Re: IBM building Blue Brain (full brain neuron simulator)

#29

Post by michaelneale »

greendestiny wrote: post #10
nsrivast wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. Our modeling capabilities continue to develop much faster than our knowledge of how the brain works. Of course, neural network modeling can still be of great use. Since we've more or less figured out how the brain does a variety of low-level processing tasks (like coordinating muscle movements, finding the visual depth and texture of observed surfaces, etc.), this knowledge can serve as a starting point f…

I think it's entirely possible we'll develop general AI without understanding consciousness or even some of the other functions of the brain.

The desire for general AI is far greater then the desire for understanding consciousness, so perhaps that will be what happens.

There certainly seems to be a desire for some people to wake up these AI minds, and get them to help us out a bit ;)

Re: IBM building Blue Brain (full brain neuron simulator)

#30

Post by SuperThread »

tx wrote: post #28
SuperThread wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But once AI becomes more intelligent than humans, every conceivable role will definitionally be better filled by that AI than by actual humans.

Great. In simple terms it means that machines will do all the work and we'll drink all the beer.

Are you looking forward to drinking beer for the rest of your life?
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