I just knew it! Soon it won't be that local after all. ;)
Argonne researchers posit way to locally circumvent Second Law of Thermodynamics
51–60 of 144 posts
Re: Argonne researchers posit way to locally circumvent Second Law of Thermodynamics
#52Is not the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics always circumvented on Earth? We absorb more energy in the form of light from the sun than we emit.
We're currently absorbing very slightly more energy that we emit. We call it global warming. Other than that, output balances input.
The atmosphere is a heat reservoir, but just like a water reservoir behind a dam, that doesn't mean it's ever-rising. Energy flows in one side and out the other, but between the two there is room for life.
Re: Argonne researchers posit way to locally circumvent Second Law of Thermodynamics
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
The second law of thermodynamics is as fundamental as the uncertainty principle: The former is a result from markov chains and information theory, the latter is a result from fourier analysis of conjugate variables. What would you consider a "fundamental physical law"?
Any law that's not based on a stochastic process, since stochastic processes can be gamed with a little bit of cleverness. If you don't believe me, just look at HFT.
You may want to read 'Thermal Physics' by Kittel and Kromer. It is the BIBLE of statistical mechanics and should straighten you out on why a statistical law is just as good as all others. And yes, it goes into great detail about when and how the statistical laws 'emerge', so to speak. Physicists have been 'worried' about what you mention in you comment for about a century and the science is very mature these days. Used copies start at ~$25.
https://www.amazon.com/Thermal-Physics-2nd-Charles-Kittel/dp...
Re: Argonne researchers posit way to locally circumvent Second Law of Thermodynamics
#54Countdown to a sci-fi movie where this idea is only half understood and the "proof of concept" device opens a portal to hell, where we meet the real Maxwell's demon... Now that I've typed this, I want to see it happen.
Starts as a local sci-fi movie, heat-ends as a cosmological documentary.
Re: Argonne researchers posit way to locally circumvent Second Law of Thermodynamics
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ironically someone downvoted you for this comment. I guess that they didn't understand how exactly true your statement is. In essence the entire biosphere is a giant heat engine, mainly fed off of the flow of energy from the Sun to Earth to outer space, and in some extreme environments fed by the radiation of heat out from the core of the Earth. Shut off those flows of energy, and the second law would shortly catch u…
Shut off the flow of energy and the cold would catch up to us a long time before the second law of thermodynamics. (our frozen, desiccated corpses would probably retain their organization longer under such conditions)
Becoming cold requires a flow of energy outwards. If you put a perfectly reflective energy shield above our atmosphere and about 2 miles down, we would not get cold. We would just wind up all dead at a uniform temperature.
Re: Argonne researchers posit way to locally circumvent Second Law of Thermodynamics
#56> if a small theoretical being sat at the door between the hot and cold rooms and only let through particles traveling at a certain speed. This theoretical imp is called "Maxwell's demon."
Maxwell's demon is considered a slight of hand because it requires energy to perform its task. But if a passive energy-free equivalent can be found with a novel quantum substrate then any liquid could be separated into hot and cold pools. I am highly sceptical of such a claim. The difference in temperature between these hypothetical pools would likely be too small to create any useful energy.
See also:
Re: Argonne researchers posit way to locally circumvent Second Law of Thermodynamics
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
The second law of thermodynamics is as fundamental as the uncertainty principle: The former is a result from markov chains and information theory, the latter is a result from fourier analysis of conjugate variables. What would you consider a "fundamental physical law"?
Any law that's not based on a stochastic process, since stochastic processes can be gamed with a little bit of cleverness. If you don't believe me, just look at HFT.
What is HFT?
Re: Argonne researchers posit way to locally circumvent Second Law of Thermodynamics
#58Re: Argonne researchers posit way to locally circumvent Second Law of Thermodynamics
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ironically someone downvoted you for this comment. I guess that they didn't understand how exactly true your statement is. In essence the entire biosphere is a giant heat engine, mainly fed off of the flow of energy from the Sun to Earth to outer space, and in some extreme environments fed by the radiation of heat out from the core of the Earth. Shut off those flows of energy, and the second law would shortly catch u…
Shut off the flow of energy and the cold would catch up to us a long time before the second law of thermodynamics. (our frozen, desiccated corpses would probably retain their organization longer under such conditions)
I'm no physicist, but isn't the cold a result of the second law? Or is the second law a consequence of the dissipation of heat?
Also, is thermodynamic entropy applicable to organized matter?
Re: Argonne researchers posit way to locally circumvent Second Law of Thermodynamics
#60Countdown to a sci-fi movie where this idea is only half understood and the "proof of concept" device opens a portal to hell, where we meet the real Maxwell's demon... Now that I've typed this, I want to see it happen.
Starts as a local sci-fi movie, heat-ends as a cosmological documentary.
Narrated by Neil deGrasse Tyson