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Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

theguardian.com

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Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#11

Post by hga »

nerdponx wrote: post #4

"...what is remarkable is that, in the party of Jackson and Bryan and Roosevelt, smiling financiers now seem to stand on every corner, constantly proffering advice about this and that." The author can't possibly be this naive. I am not surprised at all; in fact, I'm glad that this is being aired. Yes, the Republican Party has been the "money in politics" whipping boy since Reagan, but it shouldn't be news to anybody…

Yes, the Republican Party has been the "money in politics" whipping boy since Reagan

How about since at least the mentioned Williams Jennings "Cross of Gold" Bryan (and if you haven't sampled his speech, I highly recommend it, probably the best political oratory in US history, even if wrong headed)? Or the Crédit Mobilier scandal a quarter century before then? And "money in politics" was one of the biggest issues with Watergate, leading to our current largely counterproductive campaign finance "reforms".

But it's "the mother's milk of politics" (credited to Democrat Jesse M. Unruh in 1966 per Wikipedia), and has been critically important for so many generations ... yeah, no one should be this naive.

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#12

Post by dilemma »

nxc18 wrote: post #7

Also, second comment: I would be pissed if someone leakes my emails to the public. I don't care who you are, that is such an invasion of privacy that it does feel cringey reading the emails even though they are now public domain. I was going to say that you should never put sensitive information in (unsecured) email because of things like this. "Never write anything you wouldn't want printed on the cover of the NY Ti…

>I don't see anything objectionable in Podesta's emails

So his emails are fit to print on the cover of NYT?

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#13

Post by hga »

fowlerpower wrote: post #8

What's really troubling to me isn't so much that these guys send each other emails asking for favors. I am a lowly engineer and I have been asked if I would consider hiring someone who is just finish school. That's just human nature, people will ask for shit. They will take care of their own when they can and if there is no push back. What troubles me the most is that these emails were hacked by a foreign government…

What troubles me the most is that these emails were hacked by a foreign government are slowly being trickled out and are having a massive impact in our election.

That's not in the least clear, the foreign government part. Their InfoSec was so poor we're pretty sure many foreign governments and private actors gained access to significant parts of this data, although I suppose we only know of one to Podesta's GMail account. But the spear plishing that's though to have captured his credentials certainly didn't take a nation state to pull off. Plus wasn't his password trivial?

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#14

Post by trendia »

nxc18 wrote: post #6

This definitely highlights the importance of networking. I used to hate the concept that it's all about "who you know", but at some point I accepted it - it is way too common a trope to just be a toxic symptom of one particular culture. None of what we see here is surprising. People with a lot of money are spending it on what they want, often doing what they can to make the world a better place (at least for them and…

The most shocking thing to me is how little they talk about actual policy. My econ friends spend a significant time debating policies and using NBER studies to show how people would be affected by one policy or another.

In contrast, I'd say <1% of Podesta emails are about policy, and 50% of those are how the policies benefit donors, not the public.

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#15

Post by squozzer »

nerdponx wrote: post #4

"...what is remarkable is that, in the party of Jackson and Bryan and Roosevelt, smiling financiers now seem to stand on every corner, constantly proffering advice about this and that." The author can't possibly be this naive. I am not surprised at all; in fact, I'm glad that this is being aired. Yes, the Republican Party has been the "money in politics" whipping boy since Reagan, but it shouldn't be news to anybody…

>I personally don't have serious qualms with a Jeffersonian paternalistic republic, so long as I have the power to vote the "parents" out of power when they fail to represent my interests.

Well that's the real trick, isn't it? The DNC had already picked their nominee a year or so in advance, which makes one's vote a "take it or leave it" proposition.

In fairness, the RNC had probably secretly anointed Jeb, but their ability to dictate events was weakened by their nomination design. Look for them to borrow the superdelegate concept from the DNC.

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#16

Post by jokermatt999 »

paulajohnson wrote: post #2

Its all very well getting hot under the collar about the influence peddling of a charmed circle, but I have yet to see a plausible alternative organisation. Every system of government comes down to Dunbar's Number (the size of a group who can reasonably expect to know each other), and the unavoidable fact that people in charge of allocating resources will tend to allocate as much as they can to themselves. Attempts t…

While it is "just how things work" (both meanings intended), it goes against a core ideal for the United States. I'm not sure if "class mobility" is quite the term I'm looking for, but basically the idea that the common everyman could be elected and have a say in running the country. While the founding fathers were understandably wary of direct democracy, the average citizen still has somewhat of a say with their vote. Seeing that these important decisions are made by elites, behind the scenes, before the election even happened (!) is a major blow towards that ideal.

I won't pretend to have a better solution, however, so I mostly agree with your post.

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#17

Post by nerdponx »

squozzer wrote: post #15
nerdponx wrote: post #4

"...what is remarkable is that, in the party of Jackson and Bryan and Roosevelt, smiling financiers now seem to stand on every corner, constantly proffering advice about this and that." The author can't possibly be this naive. I am not surprised at all; in fact, I'm glad that this is being aired. Yes, the Republican Party has been the "money in politics" whipping boy since Reagan, but it shouldn't be news to anybody…

>I personally don't have serious qualms with a Jeffersonian paternalistic republic, so long as I have the power to vote the "parents" out of power when they fail to represent my interests. Well that's the real trick, isn't it? The DNC had already picked their nominee a year or so in advance, which makes one's vote a "take it or leave it" proposition. In fairness, the RNC had probably secretly anointed Jeb, but their…

I'm actually very curious to see what the equivalent RNC emails would look like. Was this all planned, or were they panicking?

The Trump campaign emails would probably also be fun.

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#18

Post by [deleted] »

squozzer wrote: post #15
nerdponx wrote: post #4

"...what is remarkable is that, in the party of Jackson and Bryan and Roosevelt, smiling financiers now seem to stand on every corner, constantly proffering advice about this and that." The author can't possibly be this naive. I am not surprised at all; in fact, I'm glad that this is being aired. Yes, the Republican Party has been the "money in politics" whipping boy since Reagan, but it shouldn't be news to anybody…

>I personally don't have serious qualms with a Jeffersonian paternalistic republic, so long as I have the power to vote the "parents" out of power when they fail to represent my interests. Well that's the real trick, isn't it? The DNC had already picked their nominee a year or so in advance, which makes one's vote a "take it or leave it" proposition. In fairness, the RNC had probably secretly anointed Jeb, but their…

[deleted]

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#19

Post by tmaly »

nerdponx wrote: post #17
squozzer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I personally don't have serious qualms with a Jeffersonian paternalistic republic, so long as I have the power to vote the "parents" out of power when they fail to represent my interests. Well that's the real trick, isn't it? The DNC had already picked their nominee a year or so in advance, which makes one's vote a "take it or leave it" proposition. In fairness, the RNC had probably secretly anointed Jeb, but their…

I'm actually very curious to see what the equivalent RNC emails would look like. Was this all planned, or were they panicking? The Trump campaign emails would probably also be fun.

I thought Trump did not use emails.

Re: Forget the FBI cache; the Podesta emails show how America is run

#20

Post by hga »

tmaly wrote: post #19
nerdponx wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually very curious to see what the equivalent RNC emails would look like. Was this all planned, or were they panicking? The Trump campaign emails would probably also be fun.

I thought Trump did not use emails.

Trump the man, or his campaign?

It's hard to imagine his campaign functioning without something like email, then again, I'm old fashioned and prefer it to all other forms of person to person/small groups of people methods, and the Democrats right now are teaching the rest of the world how not to do InfoSec....

I mean, how do you draft position papers (https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies/) without at minimum running them past a nuts and bolts editor?

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