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Ask HN: How to challenge a patent?

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Ask HN: How to challenge a patent?

#1

Post by mandeepj »

We have developed a 3d try room [1]. It is one of its kind. Today, I came across this patent [2] which seems to be very generic. It is like patenting a laptop with a keyboard and a charger. I would like to protect our startup.

Applicant's site is not working as per their patent. Seems like they just wanted to patent their dream functionality.

Please let us know what are our options.

[1] - www.SenseStyles.com [2] - https://www.google.com/patents/WO2012110828A1?cl=en&dq=metail&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjsu7XFloHQAhUQT48KHd6RCtkQ6AEIIjAB

Update 1 - Added more detail

Re: Ask HN: How to challenge a patent?

#2

Post by jeffmould »

IANAL, but you should contact one. That's the simple answer.

The problem with asking this question here is two-fold. First, you are potentially admitting that you think you may be violating that patent. Just because a site is not working, does not mean they are not a patent troll.

More importantly, you will get a mix of answers, if any. Patent law is complicated and, in most cases, not a simple yes you are violating or no you are not violating answer. The responses you get by asking that question in a public forum will fall along that line. Some people may think you are and others will not. In the end, you still don't have the answer to your question and are most likely more confused than when you started :)

Finally, just looking at your site, not sure if you are aware but I know of several patents that are being utilized for similar technology. Check out a site: http://zugara.com/virtual-dressing-room-technology and on their site they list the patents they are using.

Re: Ask HN: How to challenge a patent?

#3

Post by mandeepj »

jeffmould wrote: post #2

IANAL, but you should contact one. That's the simple answer. The problem with asking this question here is two-fold. First, you are potentially admitting that you think you may be violating that patent. Just because a site is not working, does not mean they are not a patent troll. More importantly, you will get a mix of answers, if any. Patent law is complicated and, in most cases, not a simple yes you are violating…

Thanks for your detailed response. Appreciate it.

I visited at least 10 online try room sites before starting work on my site. None of them were using the techniques that we have implemented. We wanted to address their shortcomings.

Lot of my friends told me recently to get my idea patented and I started exploring any similar patents. This is how I came across above patent.

Re: Ask HN: How to challenge a patent?

#4

Post by jacques_chester »

jeffmould wrote: post #2

IANAL, but you should contact one. That's the simple answer. The problem with asking this question here is two-fold. First, you are potentially admitting that you think you may be violating that patent. Just because a site is not working, does not mean they are not a patent troll. More importantly, you will get a mix of answers, if any. Patent law is complicated and, in most cases, not a simple yes you are violating…

> That's the simple answer.

It's the only answer. Every other answer is risky for both the person asking and the person answering.

Re: Ask HN: How to challenge a patent?

#5

Post by lancewiggs »

mandeepj wrote: post #3
jeffmould wrote: post #2

IANAL, but you should contact one. That's the simple answer. The problem with asking this question here is two-fold. First, you are potentially admitting that you think you may be violating that patent. Just because a site is not working, does not mean they are not a patent troll. More importantly, you will get a mix of answers, if any. Patent law is complicated and, in most cases, not a simple yes you are violating…

Thanks for your detailed response. Appreciate it. I visited at least 10 online try room sites before starting work on my site. None of them were using the techniques that we have implemented. We wanted to address their shortcomings. Lot of my friends told me recently to get my idea patented and I started exploring any similar patents. This is how I came across above patent.

Talk to a patent attorney or patent strategist and ask about "freedom top operate" (FTO). Talk to a parent strategist for guidance on the best path forward. Talk to a patent attorney if you want to spend lots of money on patents (that's what they do) Talk to your lawyer only to get referrals to people who know this space. Meanwhile make sure everything you do/have done is well documented.

(I'm a director of Everedgeip, but not an advisor)

Re: Ask HN: How to challenge a patent?

#7

Post by mandeepj »

lancewiggs wrote: post #5
mandeepj wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your detailed response. Appreciate it. I visited at least 10 online try room sites before starting work on my site. None of them were using the techniques that we have implemented. We wanted to address their shortcomings. Lot of my friends told me recently to get my idea patented and I started exploring any similar patents. This is how I came across above patent.

Talk to a patent attorney or patent strategist and ask about "freedom top operate" (FTO). Talk to a parent strategist for guidance on the best path forward. Talk to a patent attorney if you want to spend lots of money on patents (that's what they do) Talk to your lawyer only to get referrals to people who know this space. Meanwhile make sure everything you do/have done is well documented. (I'm a director of Everedgei…

Thanks for your response. Yes, we have design docs, code repositories and lot of other docs.

Re: Ask HN: How to challenge a patent?

#9

Post by mchannon »

If your idea is substantially different from theirs (yours being specific and theirs being vague), applying for your own patent, expressly including theirs as a reference and distinguishing what's novel about your technology and how it differs from theirs, is probably the best way forward.

Can't get much cheaper or more effective than having the USPTO rule your patent as valid and distinct; even a lengthy DIY patent process will run you less than a couple hours of a middling patent attorney's time.

Odds are your business will fail or be acquired by the time the patent issues or even gets looked at (I'm still litigating a patent application I initially filed in 2010). Your goal is to succeed or fail based on the quality of your business model and only use the patent process as needed to entice investors and scare away trolls.

Patent pending is not as good as issued, but darn close for a number of investors.

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