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The Cancelled Comma One Would Have Embarrassed the Car Industry

thedrive.com

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Re: The Cancelled Comma One Would Have Embarrassed the Car Industry

#31

Post by Zigurd »

kesselvon wrote: post #5

This is a bit of weak spin on the obvious news that they probably couldn't comply with the government requirements.

On the surface it looks like a small speed bump compared to what some startups face in, say, medical devices.

But it depends on where Hotz got his capital. We know it's not a big number. The compliance requirements might have cost more in consultants who are experienced in replying to such information requests, than his paid in capital to date, IF Hotz could find good consumtants in time.

It seems like he had alternatives: To delay roll-out and look for more capital, for example. But everything other than shutting down the project would cost a significant, and possibly, depending on Hotz's access to investors, an insurmountable amount of money within the time he had.

Shutting down might get regulators off his back long enough to take the project offshore.

Re: The Cancelled Comma One Would Have Embarrassed the Car Industry

#32

Post by krschultz »

M_Grey wrote: post #26
LeanderK wrote: post #13

> Hotz's initial tweets suggested his move was in response to an inquiry from NHTSA, stating that he "would much rather spend life building amazing tech than dealing with regulators and lawyers," well, this is not some stupid web-app that can't harm anyone even if it tried (except from maybe overheating your smartphone). This can kill people, i can't seriously buy dangerous stuff from somebody that says something lik…

> What's next? Producing food without following proper hygiene regulations? So... Soylent? >Disrupting the medicine-industry... So... Theranos?

Only this would be worse. Someone can choose to buy Soylent or use Theranos for themselves and no one else gets hurt. If you a person buys a crappy self driving car system it could kill me, a totally unrelated person.

I don't care how much of a libertarian you are, that's exactly the reason why we have regulations.

Re: The Cancelled Comma One Would Have Embarrassed the Car Industry

#33

Post by [deleted] »

llukas wrote: post #21
donmatito wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would have won so much Irony Points if only you had written "Producing food without following proper hygiene regulations? Disrupting the medicine industry with revolutionary tests without sufficient scientific validation?"

Let me introduce to you: Theranos

[deleted]

Re: The Cancelled Comma One Would Have Embarrassed the Car Industry

#34

Post by bertil »

donmatito wrote: post #19
LeanderK wrote: post #13

> Hotz's initial tweets suggested his move was in response to an inquiry from NHTSA, stating that he "would much rather spend life building amazing tech than dealing with regulators and lawyers," well, this is not some stupid web-app that can't harm anyone even if it tried (except from maybe overheating your smartphone). This can kill people, i can't seriously buy dangerous stuff from somebody that says something lik…

You would have won so much Irony Points if only you had written "Producing food without following proper hygiene regulations? Disrupting the medicine industry with revolutionary tests without sufficient scientific validation?"

> Producing food without following proper hygiene regulations?

Sounds like Menu Next Door, who had to deal with regulation meant for restaurants when trying to be the AirBnB of food. Things like you had to have a warning about washing your hands in your own private kitchen.

Re: The Cancelled Comma One Would Have Embarrassed the Car Industry

#35

Post by wolfgke »

krschultz wrote: post #32
M_Grey wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's next? Producing food without following proper hygiene regulations? So... Soylent? >Disrupting the medicine-industry... So... Theranos?

Only this would be worse. Someone can choose to buy Soylent or use Theranos for themselves and no one else gets hurt. If you a person buys a crappy self driving car system it could kill me, a totally unrelated person. I don't care how much of a libertarian you are, that's exactly the reason why we have regulations.

> I don't care how much of a libertarian you are

Also ask how risk-averse/-taking the other side is.

Re: The Cancelled Comma One Would Have Embarrassed the Car Industry

#36

Post by bertil »

M_Grey wrote: post #26
LeanderK wrote: post #13

> Hotz's initial tweets suggested his move was in response to an inquiry from NHTSA, stating that he "would much rather spend life building amazing tech than dealing with regulators and lawyers," well, this is not some stupid web-app that can't harm anyone even if it tried (except from maybe overheating your smartphone). This can kill people, i can't seriously buy dangerous stuff from somebody that says something lik…

> What's next? Producing food without following proper hygiene regulations? So... Soylent? >Disrupting the medicine-industry... So... Theranos?

Technically, Soylent abides by regulations: they sell flaxseed mixed with peas and oat (I think: I’m in Europe and eat Huel, which has mostly those). None of those are not well-known food sources. There are no regulation about claiming that eating nothing but that is safe; they should (at least, Huel does) have the recommended daily doses of each major molecule on the bag.

Re: The Cancelled Comma One Would Have Embarrassed the Car Industry

#37

Post by bertil »

noonespecial wrote: post #2

There's 2 possible reasons. 1) It really is near vaporware just being shown off in perfect conditions to seem exceptional. 2) It actually does work that much better with only $1000 worth of hardware and responding would give away the secret sauce. I don't give much credit to the theory that they didn't see this coming and were caught flat-footed by the sudden requirements. Oh and: Final speculation: there’s a reason…

I would include an (unlikely) 3: Hotz really, really does not want to be in the same room as the Feds (he is a confessed hacker) or spend time dealing with them. Maybe more likely: he can sell a ton _now_ in China, had a partner car company, and expect that having those work there would make his success in US either negligible in comparison, or faster thanks the example.

Re: The Cancelled Comma One Would Have Embarrassed the Car Industry

#38

Post by empraptor »

cameldrv wrote: post #16
empraptor wrote: post #6

I'm wary of self-driving systems based only on cameras. He should really wait until cheap LiDARs are available in a few years.

The comma only works on a few (maybe just one) Honda car that has a built-in front facing radar that they're able to tap into. With that, comma is using roughly the same sensor package as the V1 Tesla autopilot.

Thanks. I didn't know Comma One also uses front facing radar. Do you happen to know what state of the art millimeter wave radars are capable of? I found some references from 2013 about Panasonic product with resolution of 20cm, but maybe there are better options now?

Re: The Cancelled Comma One Would Have Embarrassed the Car Industry

#40

Post by empraptor »

striking wrote: post #29
empraptor wrote: post #6

I'm wary of self-driving systems based only on cameras. He should really wait until cheap LiDARs are available in a few years.

LIDAR is still not that good for driving. It's better than cameras but it's still pretty bad, because its vision can be obscured by weather conditions. Radar is the gold standard for vision like this. That being said, I thought they were using radar.

EDIT: cameldrv pointed out in a reply to my original comment that Comma One uses its cameras and also taps into the vehicle's existing front facing radar.

I was thinking of something like Quanergy's solid state LiDAR. I know the planned $100 version is probably a few years out, but it seems promising. And there are other companies/institutions working on cheap LiDARs that work in bad weather.

Following link is of a talk Quanergy CEO gave at Stanford.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPqzo29Q9Wc

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