Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

electrek.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

491–498 of 498 posts

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#491

Post by DasIch »

jcoffland wrote: post #490
gavman wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The NHTSA memo seems extremely reasonable to me. If you're going to put to market a product where the smallest malfunction could easily kill many people (both those using your product and those around them), answering a couple regulation questions seems like a small hurdle to pass. Nothing here is saying "we want to shut you down", it's saying "we want to make sure you pass the most basic safety standards".…

You think a threat of $21k fines per day is reasonable. This pretty much guarantees that small businesses can't compete in this market. The financial risk is too high.

If you can't pay 21k in fines, you definitely can't afford the engineering and safety testing required.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#492

Post by [deleted] »

jcoffland wrote: post #490
gavman wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The NHTSA memo seems extremely reasonable to me. If you're going to put to market a product where the smallest malfunction could easily kill many people (both those using your product and those around them), answering a couple regulation questions seems like a small hurdle to pass. Nothing here is saying "we want to shut you down", it's saying "we want to make sure you pass the most basic safety standards".…

You think a threat of $21k fines per day is reasonable. This pretty much guarantees that small businesses can't compete in this market. The financial risk is too high.

[deleted]

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#493

Post by jcoffland »

DasIch wrote: post #491
jcoffland wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think a threat of $21k fines per day is reasonable. This pretty much guarantees that small businesses can't compete in this market. The financial risk is too high.

If you can't pay 21k in fines, you definitely can't afford the engineering and safety testing required.

$21k per day would add up fast.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#494

Post by zeveb »

abduhl wrote: post #419
zeveb wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's an obvious part of a government's duty to keep it's citizens safe. Which article of the Constitution is that? I don't seem to recall it.

I believe it's in the Preamble: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." Keeping its citizens safe would likely fall under general…

The Preamble doesn't delegate any power from the several states to the United States, though.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#495

Post by zeveb »

scblock wrote: post #389
zeveb wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's an obvious part of a government's duty to keep it's citizens safe. Which article of the Constitution is that? I don't seem to recall it.

I'm surprised you haven't learned yet that the constitution grants authority to congress to pass laws, which include laws related to safety.

> I'm surprised you haven't learned yet that the constitution grants authority to congress to pass laws, which include laws related to safety.

Have you actually read Article I, Section 8? You'll have to squint very, very hard to see any authority to pass laws related to safety in it. That's because it's simply not there. The state governments, of course, do have that power, and the Congress arguably has power to regulate cars used in interstate commerce.

But there's simply no constitutional scope for safety regulation of cars built & used in only one state.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#496

Post by wayn3 »

forgottenpass wrote: post #447
thfuran wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, determining the requirements of a product you are attempting to produce ought not to be left to the end of design.

Requirements for a product? Sounds too much like a waterfall. Have you ever considered establishing product direction through use cases branded as "stories" and pulling them out of your ass every two weeks? /s

These people are too far down the rabbit hole to "get" it :p

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#497

Post by pritambaral »

zeveb wrote: post #495
scblock wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised you haven't learned yet that the constitution grants authority to congress to pass laws, which include laws related to safety.

> I'm surprised you haven't learned yet that the constitution grants authority to congress to pass laws, which include laws related to safety. Have you actually read Article I, Section 8? You'll have to squint very, very hard to see any authority to pass laws related to safety in it. That's because it's simply not there. The state governments, of course, do have that power, and the Congress arguably has power to regu…

Have you read the NHTSA letter? They talk about prohibiting interstate commerce if the product doesn't meet safety standards.

Instead of nitpicking, let's focus on the actual issue. The NHTSA didn't order Hotz to shut it down, it merely asked about the safety of the product, which led to Hotz shutting it down himself.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#498

Post by maverick_iceman »

abduhl wrote: post #158
jtmarmon wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i understand where you're coming from, but there is a counter argument to what you're saying, which is that although there may be some dangers to things like the comma one and tesla autopilot, their release may save more lives than they edanger, having a net positive to humans. humans are pretty bad at driving

This is an ends justify the means argument. How many lives have been saved TO DATE with self driving cars? How many lives will be saved IN THE FUTURE with self driving cars? What is the acceptable casualty rate to get from where we are now to where you think we will be in the future. Is your family an acceptable casualty? If not, then why is mine?

As a great man once said, "Not taking any action is also an action."
Post reply on HN