Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#191

Post by RandomOpinion » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 2:32 PM UTC

whytaka wrote: post #26

Microsoft is innovative because you can now purchase a dedicated hardware peripheral for some software feature the touchscreen was designed to replace. Let's completely forget that Microsoft 'upgrades' your OS without your permission, spies on you, embeds ads into the Start Menu, and their OEMs like Lenovo will listen in on everything you do at the hardware level. In my opinion, these are actual reasons a company sho…

> spies on you

Enough with this rubbish claim, please. Everyone I've asked to actually substantiate it resorts to angry handwaving. How about you?

The telemetry collects crash and feature usage data, the same as macOS and all of the phone OSes does. You want that on because it tells MS where the bugs are. If you turn it off, you don't get to complain about bugs because MS has no idea you encountered any.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#192

Post by tw04 » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 2:40 PM UTC

wmccullough wrote: post #140

Lot of people in this thread crapping on Microsoft. I don't know that Microsoft is more brave or more innovative than Apple yet, but I know one thing, they are more brave and innovative than Microsoft five years ago. That's all that matters. While I'm sure the grand plan is to eat Apple's lunch, they seem more focused on being better than themselves. I think they are onto something with the Surface line, they just ne…

>They also need to introduce a Surface product that the average consumer can afford

They're trying to directly compete with their partners. Budget laptops are where literally everyone else they partner with focuses.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#193

Post by tw04 » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 2:42 PM UTC

wlll wrote: post #187

yodsanklai wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a MacBook now, but I'd love to go to a Surface Studio. If they can work to get up-to-date hardware in all of their offerings ... The problem isn't so much the hardware but the OS. I have awful memories of Windows. I suppose it has gotten better, but I wonder if it's a realistic replacement to Mac OS X? Essentially, I want something that just works and where I can use common unix tools. Maybe the new Unix sub…

When this comes up a lot of my time is spent trying to tell this to people. Why don't I have a Dell XPS? It's faster and has more memory and bla bla. The computer is a useful tool only when it has an OS. What you run on it is as important as the hardware itself. The combination of Hardware and OS is what makes the tool what it is, and comparing them each separately doesn't make any sense in my opinion. And that is wh…

>And that is where Apple wins for me currently. I spend a lot of time in the terminal, and Windows just doesn't have that unix base that I'm comfortable with.

It literally runs native Linux with Windows subsystem for Linux:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#194

Post by jfoutz » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 2:42 PM UTC

dpark wrote: post #173

jfoutz wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not. Google has 7 billion in cash. Every one of the big 5 could spend a couple billion to win a market. They can't. They are incapable of risking losing billions on an idea. They're not startups anymore. I made a peer comment about google vs Tesla self driving cars that captures the essence. The point is, Google won't sacrifice ad sales to win at tablets. Apple won't sacrifice consumer electronics to win…

> Every one of the big 5 could spend a couple billion to win a market. I promise you that Microsoft would happily dump a couple billion into the phone market to own it. Microsoft paid 7.2 billion just for Nokia, not counting the likely billions poured into the Windows Phone OS itself. Disclosure: Microsoft employee

I'm not explaining myself well.

Consider fencing vs. sword fighting. In fencing, my goal is to turn on a little light when i touch your body with my epee. In sword fighting, my goal is to kill you. it's a gruesome analogy, and hard to really crystalize. The big 5 have something to lose. They fence. The little guy is sword fighting. Did you ever really feel like Microsoft would go out of business because they lost the phone market?

There is an umami to sword fighting. There's this whole other flavor that's hard to describe, unless you've tasted it. I know, it's kind of a bullshit argument. There's this visceral sense of impending doom that leads to brilliant or lucky moves. I don't believe a large, successful organization can really get that flavor. you can take fencing seriously, but it's still different than sword fighting.

I dunno. the best idea i have is to try playing poker. You have to face this horrible, awful feeling. You know the right thing to do, but it's so hard to do it. A good fencer will do the right thing. A sword fighter will do the right thing out of desperation.

I don't doubt Microsoft's commitment. I think they were committed at the wrong layer. Furthermore, i think their income level makes it impossible to see the layer to commit at.

My apologies if this seems crazy. It's hard to articulate.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#195

Post by jhasse » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 2:43 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #150

jhasse wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Brand new screen digitiser technology in the iPad Pros that also puts them several years ahead of any of their competitors. What technology are you talking about? > mobile processor designs putting them years ahead of any of their competitors in yet another technology category. Are you talking about the A10 Fusion? It's the fastest single-core processor, but according to https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Mobile/Apple-i…

>What technology are you talking about? The way the pen and screen work together, and the screen sandwich layering that significantly reduces parallax between the pencil tip and image. Regarding processor tech I was mainly thinking of the move to 64bit and secure enclave which completely out-manoeuvred the competition. I'm not saying Apple is the only company innovating, Android Wear is a credible and innovative alte…

> Regarding processor tech I was mainly thinking of the move to 64bit and secure enclave which completely out-manoeuvred the competition.

Why is the move to 64 bit so important, but the move to 4 cores isn't? I don't really see why 64 bit makes sense for This is also the first time I hear about Secure Enclave. TouchID isn't that secure anyway (https://www.ccc.de/en/updates/2013/ccc-breaks-apple-touchid), so I really don't care how the fingerprint is stored.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#196

Post by nicky0 » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 2:44 PM UTC

s_ngularity wrote: post #90

nicky0 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't always the case, but you are now allowed to run macOS in a VM on Apple hardware.

Source on this? A quick google search didn't turn up anything

It's right there in the macOS EULA http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1012.pdf, Section 2.B.(iii):

"[...] you are granted a limited, non- transferable, non-exclusive license: [...] (iii) to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software, for purposes of: (a) software development; (b) testing during software development; (c) using macOS Server; or (d) personal, non-commercial use."

This section was first introduced in the EULA for OS X 10.7.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#197

Post by pistle » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 2:44 PM UTC

Two things. "Brave" = risk and cost/benefited to death decisions that a bunch of people don't understand

Generally speaking... Apple sells iPhones, Microsoft sells software

The overlap of their profit centers is minimal. Comparing perceived corporate personalities is your click-bait for the day.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#198

Post by lmm » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 2:44 PM UTC

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #180

lmm wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what illustrator/designer would choose to use a bad keyboard? And if we're already assuming a desk, I don't think any writer or developer would choose a small screen (and indeed today's "small" desktop screens are the same size as the "artist/designer-only large" screens of a decade ago). Nor do I think anyone would deliberately choose non-touch, since other things being equal touch sensitivity is purely an upgra…

I have many non-technical acquaintances who don't want 'the biggest screen possible' - at a certain size, screens just get too big for most people. In fact, 24" is probably about my personal limit - bigger than that, and I'm just going to be moving my head too much for comfort. I definitely wouldn't want a touchscreen on a desktop monitor. Unless it was literally no more expensive or the only option - which, of cours…

I don't make "good enough use of" most of my computer's features - I'm not really enough of a hardcore gamer for the graphics card, I rarely if ever need as much memory/CPU/etc. as the machine. I don't think I've ever used the SD card slot. Just like I don't think I've ever run my oven at maximum temperature, or driven a car at top speed. Once a tool reaches the point where it's cheap enough it's worth having a version that's a bit overbuilt.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#199

Post by TickleSteve » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 2:54 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #130

curt15 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the 5k displays actually Apple's? It would be a strange move to exit the monitor business if they actually pioneered some new display technology.

None of the standard connector specs has the bandwidth to support a 5K signal at the same level of quality, so they can only do it in an all-in-one system until the public standard connector tech catches up.

this is just Apple wanting to be being ahead of the standardisation curve again... a la ADC (Apple Display Connector).

How many ADC monitors are out there now??

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#200

Post by whoops1122 » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 2:55 PM UTC

wmccullough wrote: post #140

Lot of people in this thread crapping on Microsoft. I don't know that Microsoft is more brave or more innovative than Apple yet, but I know one thing, they are more brave and innovative than Microsoft five years ago. That's all that matters. While I'm sure the grand plan is to eat Apple's lunch, they seem more focused on being better than themselves. I think they are onto something with the Surface line, they just ne…

To me, its different philosophy, I never consider Apple very innovative technically. they have always been (even with jobs) more innovative on product strategy and marketing. Iphone wasnt the first of its kind, nor its Ipod. However, They have always choose the correct package for a stable technology that fits the mass.

Buying Iphone, Ipod, IMac, or air its more of a fashion statement than a Technical one, and coding does look cool on Mac, and time may be changing, but most people that i know who code on Apple product arent your typical computer science, nerds with no art back ground kind of coders.