Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#111

Post by deanCommie » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 12:05 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #73

The central premise is that Apple isn't innovative anymore. Let's look at the technologies Apple has materially advanced over the last few years. * Custom screen technology leap-frogging 4K displays directly to 5K, at a full-system price below that of a 4K screen alone from competitors at the time. * wide colour gamut screen tech putting them several years ahead of the competition. * Brand new screen digitiser techno…

it depends on what qualifies as "innovation". The bar you set is so low that literally every new "feature" (Reversible iphone connector!) can qualify.

Watch OS has nothing innovative about it that Android Wear doesn't already have, and is not taking off in the market.

3D Touch is a technological marvel but a useless feature for usability. It hasn't taken anymore than Samsung's "hover over the phone" touch has.

I can't comment on the colour gamut tech or the screen digitiser tech, but what exactly is Apple doing there that is leaps and bounds ahead of other display/tablet manufacturers? Do you have any links that compare these?

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#112

Post by kakarot » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 12:05 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #73

The central premise is that Apple isn't innovative anymore. Let's look at the technologies Apple has materially advanced over the last few years. * Custom screen technology leap-frogging 4K displays directly to 5K, at a full-system price below that of a 4K screen alone from competitors at the time. * wide colour gamut screen tech putting them several years ahead of the competition. * Brand new screen digitiser techno…

Would you mind elaborating on points 3-5 for me?

I haven't heard about #3, I guess I don't understand 3D Touch's hardware specs enough to know what you mean with #4, and I just don't believe #5.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#113

Post by vetinari » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 12:06 PM UTC

tdkl wrote: post #43

giancarlostoro wrote: post #5

They're working themselves there, it still feels like parts of Microsoft haven't caught up. Windows 10 comes to mind, and other areas that still seem painfully behind the times. It would be nice if Microsoft made some Windows Components that are open sourced out of the box, like full disk encryption software. I've personally moved to Linux for over a year now because it meets all my needs without getting in my way. L…

> here should be a minimalist / developer centric version of Windows that has no ridiculous services on or even installed on the OS, has sane update installation (once a month or so is fine, unless critical). The LTSB edition.

Which is available only to enterprises. Microsoft won't sell it to end customers or SOHOs.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#114

Post by jpgvm » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 12:07 PM UTC

culturestate wrote: post #101

jpgvm wrote: post #53

Microsoft has almost always been a more innovative company. Microsoft Research alone is enough for this to be true. Surface is a very very very old brand/moniker that goes back almost a decade at this point - originally a tech demo of a table that you could interact with in various ways. They explored touch, VR and all sorts of alternative interfaces before anyone else. They took a stab at PDAs around the same time a…

Is Microsoft more innovative, or is Microsoft simply more publicly innovative? Apple (and tons of other companies, for that matter) simply don't make hay out of their R&D efforts until they have something sellable to announce.

I don't think so.

If one is to assume R&D spending it roughly equatable with "non-public" innovation than historically Microsoft is more innovative than even Google, let alone Apple. This assumption may be weak but I think it would at least be somewhat correlated.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#115

Post by oneeyedpigeon » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 12:09 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #40

gurkendoktor wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author (along with many other articles) compares it to the iMac , though: > The Studio (...) is what the iMac should be by now — a truly innovative, ultra-thin, 28-inch touchscreen. That doesn't make any more sense to me. The iMac and MacBook Pro are both expensive, but they're "computers for the masses" - they're great machines for almost everyone. (Or in the case of the MacBook Pro dongles, they're equally frus…

> computers for the masses At those prices, more like computers for the 1% - a niche almost as small as illustrators.

Far more 'for the masses' than the Surface Studio which is three times the price, though. And, of course, at those prices, three times is a LOT. Everyone seems to be of the opinion that home desktops 'for the masses' are on the way out anyway, so those who will be buying iMacs (if they continue to exist) in future are likely to be in the 1%; the Surface Studio buyers will probably be in the 0.1%, though.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#116

Post by caseymarquis » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 12:09 PM UTC

I thought this was going to be about OSS, Linux on Windows, S2016 docker containers, etc. That's where MS has been moving in an innovative direction. Instead it's making gross over-predictions based on the release of a very large tablet.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#117

Post by curt15 » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 12:09 PM UTC

UK-AL wrote: post #84

whytaka wrote: post #26

Microsoft is innovative because you can now purchase a dedicated hardware peripheral for some software feature the touchscreen was designed to replace. Let's completely forget that Microsoft 'upgrades' your OS without your permission, spies on you, embeds ads into the Start Menu, and their OEMs like Lenovo will listen in on everything you do at the hardware level. In my opinion, these are actual reasons a company sho…

"Let's completely forget that Microsoft 'upgrades' your OS without your permission, spies on you, embeds ads into the Start Menu, and their OEMs like Lenovo will listen in on everything you do at the hardware level. In my opinion, these are actual reasons a company should completely fail and dissolve." - an google and apple don't do this?

When was the last time you took a walk and came back to your Apple computer threatening to restart in 10 minutes to update itself? This happened to me several times in Windows 10 ever since the Anniversary update which removed the option to have windows merely notify the user to schedule a restart (even for the "Professional" edition -- https://gbatemp.net/threads/windows-10-anniversary-update-no...). Eventually I got tired of MS insisting it be in the driver's seat of my computer and switched to Linux. Fedora 24 works quite well and is fortunately quite adequate for my usual needs.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#118

Post by notalaser » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 12:11 PM UTC

jfoutz wrote: post #106

notalaser wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been reading all these Mac-related posts lately because I'm very seriously considering getting one. Why, you ask? Precisely because this: > A linux laptop with flawless hardware support. is hardly cutting it for me anymore, and I've used Linux for a very long time (basically, since Be Inc. was still around and BeOS was still being sold, since we're dabbling in nostalgia). You can get a Linux laptop with flawless…

So, if you're willing to drop 2k on an experiment, i'd say go for it. I'm leery of the new models because i use vim, and my fingers get cold and sweaty. Touch devices don't respond perfectly and i have fear about `esc` working reliably. I've gone through my own versions of your frustrations, but i'll spare you the war stories. my 2 cents. macos is bsd, hacked up in odd ways. if you want to edit something in /etc, you…

I had (well, I still have it) a Mac Mini and used it between 2007 and 2009. I was pretty dissatisfied with its performance (then again, that was around the time when Tiger got obsolete and the Leopard moved in, and the Mini was already slow and old by that time) but, overall, I think it's the most productive platform I used, short of my old WindowMaker setup which has aged too much to be useful by now.

So I know what to expect right now. Frankly, what I'm afraid of is that I don't know what to expect next year. 2K for an experiment is ok if I could run it for three or four years. Right now, it looks like if Apple has a document called "Roadmap for Mac Computers, 2016-2020", there's a good chance that it's a four-page summary of another document called "How to convince all our customers to just get an iPad already for fun and profit".

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#119

Post by intended » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 12:16 PM UTC

delegate wrote: post #64

dstryr wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that we are constantly bombarded with propaganda, but a lot of the backlash is coming from long-time Apple users such as myself, who feel that Apple is no longer making computers for us. And you know what? That's perfectly fine, they're a business and are catering to the high end where the margins are best. The proof is littered all over HN and Reddit where blog posts all begin with the same defense,…

I've also been using Apple computers since Apple II. I've had every Apple PC, iPod and iPhone and I've been a loyal fan and loved it. But these are just words. Actually, I just lied, but you would have probably believed me, because, why would I lie in a comment ? Well, why not ? :) I got my first ever Mac in 2008 and I've only owned an iPhone 5 and 6. So truth and falsehood on the internet is very cheap - it costs no…

You can compare previous product launch discussions on reddit/hn yourself and gauge the feelings at the time.

Furthermore, you can see the products yourself and decide what is a major improvement for yourself - without needing to relate to what someone says on an article.

It bears to remember that this is microsoft, the company which until 2012, had no hardware product of its own.

I use a surface today, and the new studio which was launched is a poor product because of its graphics card which is substandard compared to whats on the market now.

But its still a significant step ahead, and all these changes are happening along side getting one core together. The braver company today is Msft.

Re: Microsoft is now a braver, more innovative company than Apple

#120

Post by jfoutz » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 12:21 PM UTC

notalaser wrote: post #118

jfoutz wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if you're willing to drop 2k on an experiment, i'd say go for it. I'm leery of the new models because i use vim, and my fingers get cold and sweaty. Touch devices don't respond perfectly and i have fear about `esc` working reliably. I've gone through my own versions of your frustrations, but i'll spare you the war stories. my 2 cents. macos is bsd, hacked up in odd ways. if you want to edit something in /etc, you…

I had (well, I still have it) a Mac Mini and used it between 2007 and 2009. I was pretty dissatisfied with its performance (then again, that was around the time when Tiger got obsolete and the Leopard moved in, and the Mini was already slow and old by that time) but, overall, I think it's the most productive platform I used, short of my old WindowMaker setup which has aged too much to be useful by now. So I know what…

The hardware is solid. I have zero complaints about build quality. You are not obligated to upgrade to the latest OS (but you probably should...). I feel really comfortable saying you can get 4 years out of a mbp. If you really need the out, just in case you need to install windows or linux, wait 2-3 months, just to make sure other people have done it reliably.

There is always risk it's not the "optimal" choice, but it's certainly not the "wrong" choice. MacOS is fine. If you hate it just install something else. (but the brand new stuff might be flakey under windows/linux for a while)