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Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

sonderdesign.com

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Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#131

Post by camoby »

SonderDesign wrote: post #97
anexprogrammer wrote: post #15

An interesting idea, but I just don't look at my keyboards. Even so, I can't help feeling this is a much better approach than replacing F-keys with the Mac Touchbar. The touchbar could have been a great idea if above the pre-existing keys. However, if it was a Model M chassis, sculpted full travel loud mechanical keys, E-Ink, and a modern selection of media keys and volume I'd probably buy one. Regardless of how sill…

Hi, appreciate the feedback; I'm one of the engineers working on the project at Sonder. Our CEO actually has a Model M and an Apple Extended Keyboard II as reference designs in the office; they're probably the pinnacle of good keyboard design and construction however the product you're asking for (a mech switch display keyboard) already exists and it costs $1500. The reality is, that approach is not optimised for mas…

Didn't you just just acquired by Apple?

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#132

Post by nsxwolf »

bitwize wrote: post #119
spc476 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given some of the comments in another recent thread ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12828398 ) your coworkers just might kill you for using a loud keyboard (but given the construction of an IBM Model M, you will probably be able to defend yourself with it).

Been carrying an MX blue keyboard from workplace to workplace. Not a peep of complaint from a coworker yet.

They must not be complainers. They probably hate you in secret.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#133

Post by tarikjn »

SonderDesign wrote: post #97
anexprogrammer wrote: post #15

An interesting idea, but I just don't look at my keyboards. Even so, I can't help feeling this is a much better approach than replacing F-keys with the Mac Touchbar. The touchbar could have been a great idea if above the pre-existing keys. However, if it was a Model M chassis, sculpted full travel loud mechanical keys, E-Ink, and a modern selection of media keys and volume I'd probably buy one. Regardless of how sill…

Hi, appreciate the feedback; I'm one of the engineers working on the project at Sonder. Our CEO actually has a Model M and an Apple Extended Keyboard II as reference designs in the office; they're probably the pinnacle of good keyboard design and construction however the product you're asking for (a mech switch display keyboard) already exists and it costs $1500. The reality is, that approach is not optimised for mas…

Please consider split keyboards with raisers for future advanced models, I have a Kinesis Freestyle 2 with VIP3 kit, and this is the best keyboard I've ever used as far as ergonomics -- and it doesn't have to have such a large footprint or long travel keys to be ergonomic, though the riser and the wrist rests are almost indispensable.

The Goldtouch Go!2 tried to go in the direction of an ergonomic mobile keyboard, but the layout is crap and the separation of the two pieces and wrist rests make the Freestyle 2 vastly more ergonomic. You could also make 2 pieces that are separated completely wirelessly.

I used to have a model M-type keyboard, and I would disagree that these are the pinnacle of good keyboard design. Typing on a flat keyboard is not natural/good for your hands as you are almost constantly near the limit flexibility of your wrists and arms.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#134

Post by rayiner »

anexprogrammer wrote: post #15

An interesting idea, but I just don't look at my keyboards. Even so, I can't help feeling this is a much better approach than replacing F-keys with the Mac Touchbar. The touchbar could have been a great idea if above the pre-existing keys. However, if it was a Model M chassis, sculpted full travel loud mechanical keys, E-Ink, and a modern selection of media keys and volume I'd probably buy one. Regardless of how sill…

> sculpted full travel loud mechanical keys

I learned to type on a Model M keyboard. But are they actually better? Or is it all psycho-somatic? I don't think I type any slower on a modern scissor-switch keyboard. And frankly it's a lot less physical exertion and not to mention quieter.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#135

Post by jrockway »

nsxwolf wrote: post #132
bitwize wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been carrying an MX blue keyboard from workplace to workplace. Not a peep of complaint from a coworker yet.

They must not be complainers. They probably hate you in secret.

Agree. Model M / Cherry blues are too loud for any shared space. Even Topre switches are probably kind of annoying, but it's a lower-pitched sound so not as noticeable.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#136

Post by audeyisaacs »

SonderDesign wrote: post #82

Hi HN, I'm one of the engineers working on the project, if you have any questions please ask.

What's the timeline like until I can buy(not pre-order) this?

Edit: would also be wanting the ability to completely disable any 'cloud' functions. That's a real no-go for me.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#137

Post by neves »

Sorry, but you can't beat Brazilian standard committees. We are the country of 3 pins jacks, of Pal-M TV (not PAL, not NTSC), and of the ABNT2 keyboard.

Yes, our keyboards have 14 keys on the second line of keys. Even if your keyboard can rewrite all the keys on the fly, you can't make it compatible with the stupid Brazilians ones.

Try harder next time.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#138

Post by jacobolus »

SonderDesign wrote: post #97
anexprogrammer wrote: post #15

An interesting idea, but I just don't look at my keyboards. Even so, I can't help feeling this is a much better approach than replacing F-keys with the Mac Touchbar. The touchbar could have been a great idea if above the pre-existing keys. However, if it was a Model M chassis, sculpted full travel loud mechanical keys, E-Ink, and a modern selection of media keys and volume I'd probably buy one. Regardless of how sill…

Hi, appreciate the feedback; I'm one of the engineers working on the project at Sonder. Our CEO actually has a Model M and an Apple Extended Keyboard II as reference designs in the office; they're probably the pinnacle of good keyboard design and construction however the product you're asking for (a mech switch display keyboard) already exists and it costs $1500. The reality is, that approach is not optimised for mas…

Neither the Model M nor the AEK II is a “pinnacle” of anything. The best keyboards were made earlier, in the 1970s. By the mid-1980s when the Model M debuted, or the early–mid 1990s of the AEK II, keyboards were already started along their downward cost-and-quality-cutting slide, albeit not yet to the final rubber dome ditch of the late 1990s through 2000s.

If you can, try to find an Apple Standard Keyboard (M0116) or Apple Extended Keyboard (M0115), with orange-slider Alps switches. Try to find one in as close to unused condition as you can (ideally you want something which was stored inside a box for 25 years), as getting dust inside the mechanism affects the typing feel of Alps switches dramatically. If you can, also try to find some blue-slider (clicky) Alps switches from the same time period (late 80s through about 1990).

Most keyboard “enthusiasts” agree that these are nicer keyswitches than the AEK II’s cream-slider Alps switches. The later switches were after some cost cutting design changes at Alps (and maybe production expansions to new factories?). And also have their feel somewhat compromised by the inclusion of rubber dampers in the switch which were added to cut some of the sound.

Also, instead of a Model M, see if you can find a Model F. They’re in my opinion much more satisfying to type on, albeit a bit louder.

Other clicky switches you might try are blue SMK switches, black NMB–Hi Tek switches, and IBM beam spring switches.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#139

Post by anexprogrammer »

SonderDesign wrote: post #97
anexprogrammer wrote: post #15

An interesting idea, but I just don't look at my keyboards. Even so, I can't help feeling this is a much better approach than replacing F-keys with the Mac Touchbar. The touchbar could have been a great idea if above the pre-existing keys. However, if it was a Model M chassis, sculpted full travel loud mechanical keys, E-Ink, and a modern selection of media keys and volume I'd probably buy one. Regardless of how sill…

Hi, appreciate the feedback; I'm one of the engineers working on the project at Sonder. Our CEO actually has a Model M and an Apple Extended Keyboard II as reference designs in the office; they're probably the pinnacle of good keyboard design and construction however the product you're asking for (a mech switch display keyboard) already exists and it costs $1500. The reality is, that approach is not optimised for mas…

When I say I'd pay a silly price, I wasn't thinking quite Art Lebedev silly! They discontinued the nicer one (Maximus).

Didn't realise the display was a single piece. Must make the switching and springing challenging to say the least. In fact I struggle to work out how you do it reliably with the tiny space between keys.

One to watch I hope. I look forward to interesting new products! Perhaps not a million miles from a modernised M with media and so forth. Or ergonomic.

ps, licence your keyboard to Apple in preference to getting bought by them, the Linux and PC worlds might like them too. ;)

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#140

Post by [deleted] »

Animats wrote: post #120

"With Sonder all your settings are saved automatically to the cloud." Just what we need. Computer peripherals slaved to some external cloud server. You have a computer right there, able to store stuff. Run programs, even. You don't want to be tied to some here-today, gone-tomorrow service. Also, how do you know it isn't sending your keystrokes somewhere? An API would make more sense. Programs which change the meaning…

[deleted]
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