Hyperloop Freight is a Joke • Hacker News Board

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#101

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 1:02 AM UTC

LordHumungous wrote: post #83

Omniusaspirer wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be able to tell us about some of the problems the LHC faced? Hyperloop aside, this is an interesting subject.

The tolerances on each part must be very tight. If there is a single flaw in one part, the whole vacuum fails. The challenges become exponentially greater as you scale up the diameter of the pipe, since the force on the pipe is proportional to the square of the radius. The LHC had a 50mm diameter pipe, the hyperloop proposes an 8+ foot diameter. You do the math.

[deleted]

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#102

Post by hatsunearu » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 1:03 AM UTC

riffic wrote: post #39

problems wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best legitimate criticisms I've seen are here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk Basically expansion and contraction as well as just plain vulnerability of running a vacuum make it extremely difficult to do practically. The phrase he uses, "all the problems of space travel except in a gun barrel" is a pretty accurate description of the issue. Any loss of vacuum will almost guarantee loss of life. No reali…

You assume that Hyperloop's tube will run a vacuum, which is a misconception. The Hyperloop One design uses low pressure tubes which is completely different from being completely evacuated.

Watch his second video, he provides extra explanations including that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDwe2M-LDZQ

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#103

Post by smokeyj » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 1:05 AM UTC

LordHumungous wrote: post #87

Turing_Machine wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The challenges of maintaining a closed vacuum pipe that spanned a mere 17 miles were vast and expensive." The vacuum level required for a particle accelerator (10^-11 torr or something like that) and the one posited for the Hyperloop (0.75 torr) are so far apart that they have virtually nothing in common.

That is actually a valid point, Musk only proposes a partial vacuum which is a lot different from a pure vacuum. However, I think that is still a lot to ask for heavily used transit infrastructure.

It almost sounds like you have no credibility on the matter along with a highly critical opinion of Musk.

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#104

Post by robotresearcher » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 1:07 AM UTC

D_Alex wrote: post #82

LordHumungous wrote: post #62

Of course the hyperloop is a joke. Elon Musk has zero experience or training in transportation infrastructure, but we are supposed to have faith in some idea he farted out in a white paper, why? Because he has skillfully cultivated his image as a "genius", and we bought it? The hyperloop was nothing more than a (savvy) PR move to cement his image as a "visionary". That it actually got funded only goes to show what gu…

Elon Musk had zero experience building cars, yet he made Tesla happen. Perhaps a high intellect and a good general purpose engineering training can accomplish more than you think. You, on the other hand, are overwhelmed by the challenge of maintaining vacuum in a tube that spans a mere 17 miles. At the very least, you should restrain yourself from using language like "...some idea he farted out...".

> You, on the other hand, are overwhelmed by the challenge of maintaining vacuum in a tube that spans a mere 17 miles.

You say 'overwhelmed' but I'll just point out it is built and working, and at almost-perfect vacuum.

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#105

Post by m0llusk » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 1:15 AM UTC

Freight networks are critical and hyperloop has a claim to high efficiency transport. This might not work out as hoped but it is most certainly not a joke.

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#106

Post by mypalmike » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 1:16 AM UTC

taneq wrote: post #53

Xorlev wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading through the criticisms the consensus is "sure, this can work if you allocate 10-100x more money than estimated." I'm not sure if it's truly innovative if it costs more, places considerable stress (up to 0.5g!) on the rider/cargo (what the author calls a "barf ride"). The analysis picks apart the touted benefits of additional speed when ultimately the capacity is lower and it takes longer to depart. In the cas…

A train that accelerates at 0.5g to 1200kph would be awesome and I would ride it at every available opportunity.

What about one where you feel that, acting in various directions, at every curve, every speed transition, and every elevation change. Because that's the "barf ride" being discussed, not merely getting thrown to the back of your seat during initial acceleration.

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#107

Post by LordHumungous » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 1:21 AM UTC

smokeyj wrote: post #103

LordHumungous wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is actually a valid point, Musk only proposes a partial vacuum which is a lot different from a pure vacuum. However, I think that is still a lot to ask for heavily used transit infrastructure.

It almost sounds like you have no credibility on the matter along with a highly critical opinion of Musk.

Well this is the internet. We're all just assholes with opinions, aren't we?

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#108

Post by nothrabannosir » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 1:25 AM UTC

LordHumungous wrote: post #62

Of course the hyperloop is a joke. Elon Musk has zero experience or training in transportation infrastructure, but we are supposed to have faith in some idea he farted out in a white paper, why? Because he has skillfully cultivated his image as a "genius", and we bought it? The hyperloop was nothing more than a (savvy) PR move to cement his image as a "visionary". That it actually got funded only goes to show what gu…

If I take your first paragraph and replace Hyperloop with Space X, it sounds like something one could have said back when that started. Yet here we are.

I'm no expert either, but that sounds rather hollow..

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#109

Post by jheriko » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 1:32 AM UTC

i still think there is a much bigger problem in simply getting the thing through the red tape necessary too... even if it was useful, it would be a real struggle to be allowed to operate at all imo...

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#110

Post by paulsutter » Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 1:37 AM UTC

smokeyj wrote: post #103

LordHumungous wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is actually a valid point, Musk only proposes a partial vacuum which is a lot different from a pure vacuum. However, I think that is still a lot to ask for heavily used transit infrastructure.

It almost sounds like you have no credibility on the matter along with a highly critical opinion of Musk.

Just the opposite - agreeing with TuringMachine boosted his credibility for me.