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Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

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Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#11

Post by konschubert »

Russell91 wrote: post #2

I always come to these hyperloop criticisms expecting to find some sort of fatal flaw in the physics of energy efficient supersonic travel. But to my surprise, they instead tend to be pessimists saying things like, "You'll never get past my friends: the regulators, the government bureaucrats, and especially the lawyers!. We will drive up your costs and make you look foolish". First, no one said that designing this th…

Maybe there is no single fatal flaw. The point is, though, that there are many, many issues that need to be addressed and it is very clear already now that the hyperloop will be uneconomical. In other words:

It might be possible to force it into existence, but it won't be worth it.

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#12

Post by problems »

Russell91 wrote: post #2

I always come to these hyperloop criticisms expecting to find some sort of fatal flaw in the physics of energy efficient supersonic travel. But to my surprise, they instead tend to be pessimists saying things like, "You'll never get past my friends: the regulators, the government bureaucrats, and especially the lawyers!. We will drive up your costs and make you look foolish". First, no one said that designing this th…

The best legitimate criticisms I've seen are here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk

Basically expansion and contraction as well as just plain vulnerability of running a vacuum make it extremely difficult to do practically. The phrase he uses, "all the problems of space travel except in a gun barrel" is a pretty accurate description of the issue. Any loss of vacuum will almost guarantee loss of life. No realistic demo has been done even on a small scale as of yet.

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#13

Post by Tade0 »

Here's an idea: Ditch the vacuum and instead put a mixture of 80% helium and 20% oxygen at half sea level pressure. This way you'll get a breathable atmosphere that is five times less dense than air and causes as much less drag. Imagine Teslas hurtling 155mph through these tunnels using only as much energy as if they were traveling at 85mph.

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#14

Post by xt00 »

I had thought the concept for hyper loop was that the infrastructure cost would be cheaper because it is a tube that does not require power or rails.

But it does seem like saying instead of two rails that allow for deviations both horizontally and vertically and the vehicle stays on top, then now we need a really nicely round tube with a different set of requirements that must be maintained over hundreds or thousands of miles.

I guess if hyperloop teams are still in the phase of proving stuff out and they need money then the money they will get will still probably be tiny compared to what it would cost to actually build a real full blown system when you factor in all of the costs of buying land and permits and construction companies.

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#15

Post by dpark »

problems wrote: post #12
Russell91 wrote: post #2

I always come to these hyperloop criticisms expecting to find some sort of fatal flaw in the physics of energy efficient supersonic travel. But to my surprise, they instead tend to be pessimists saying things like, "You'll never get past my friends: the regulators, the government bureaucrats, and especially the lawyers!. We will drive up your costs and make you look foolish". First, no one said that designing this th…

The best legitimate criticisms I've seen are here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk Basically expansion and contraction as well as just plain vulnerability of running a vacuum make it extremely difficult to do practically. The phrase he uses, "all the problems of space travel except in a gun barrel" is a pretty accurate description of the issue. Any loss of vacuum will almost guarantee loss of life. No reali…

Why would loss of vacuum necessarily result in loss of life? I would expect loss of vacuum to result in sudden deceleration, but not with a deadly level of force.

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#16

Post by problems »

dpark wrote: post #15
problems wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best legitimate criticisms I've seen are here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk Basically expansion and contraction as well as just plain vulnerability of running a vacuum make it extremely difficult to do practically. The phrase he uses, "all the problems of space travel except in a gun barrel" is a pretty accurate description of the issue. Any loss of vacuum will almost guarantee loss of life. No reali…

Why would loss of vacuum necessarily result in loss of life? I would expect loss of vacuum to result in sudden deceleration, but not with a deadly level of force.

Air being drawn in results in pressure on the capsule, propelling it. Check the video out for a demo.

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#17

Post by cmrx64 »

Tade0 wrote: post #13

Here's an idea: Ditch the vacuum and instead put a mixture of 80% helium and 20% oxygen at half sea level pressure. This way you'll get a breathable atmosphere that is five times less dense than air and causes as much less drag. Imagine Teslas hurtling 155mph through these tunnels using only as much energy as if they were traveling at 85mph.

Where do you get all that helium?

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#18

Post by imaginenore »

Russell91 wrote: post #2

I always come to these hyperloop criticisms expecting to find some sort of fatal flaw in the physics of energy efficient supersonic travel. But to my surprise, they instead tend to be pessimists saying things like, "You'll never get past my friends: the regulators, the government bureaucrats, and especially the lawyers!. We will drive up your costs and make you look foolish". First, no one said that designing this th…

That's a strawman. Most of the criticisms are technological and security related. How do you keep an enormous vacuum tube with fast-moving pods inside secure against even simple attacks?

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#19

Post by icanhackit »

treelovinhippie wrote: post #7
Russell91 wrote: post #2

I always come to these hyperloop criticisms expecting to find some sort of fatal flaw in the physics of energy efficient supersonic travel. But to my surprise, they instead tend to be pessimists saying things like, "You'll never get past my friends: the regulators, the government bureaucrats, and especially the lawyers!. We will drive up your costs and make you look foolish". First, no one said that designing this th…

Pessimism seems to be the default for the HN hivemind. Would be cool if we all just encouraged everyone working on moonshots.

> Pessimism seems to be the default for the HN hivemind.

At the time of typing this the pessimism has been entirely reasonable and I'd say in the minority, with Xorlev outlining the fundamental issues with Hyperloop (capacity, costs, solving the wrong end of the problem) and KirinDave pointing out how while yes, there are more vacuous ways of spending money, when you're mucking around with other people's dough there's an expectation on return on investment, otherwise it's a charity.

I'd like to see the Hyperloop built just as I'd like all kinds of cool, complex and not necessarily practical technologies develop. But it's not unfair to point out the economic and physical realities that will get in the way of those things.

Re: Hyperloop Freight is a Joke

#20

Post by bduerst »

Russell91 wrote: post #2

I always come to these hyperloop criticisms expecting to find some sort of fatal flaw in the physics of energy efficient supersonic travel. But to my surprise, they instead tend to be pessimists saying things like, "You'll never get past my friends: the regulators, the government bureaucrats, and especially the lawyers!. We will drive up your costs and make you look foolish". First, no one said that designing this th…

It's a criticism common to most future tech, not just the hyperloop.

For example, there was lots of hang-wringing over Fusion power back in the 1970's, about how if the bureaucrats would just give it more funding then it would happen: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/U.S._his...

I'm not saying any of this tech is without merit, just that it's common to need buy-in from many organizations to make it happen.

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