Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

news.ycombinator.com

111–120 of 191 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#111
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why? Multi-SIM phones are cheap and easy to come by.

Not in the US

Heh, I'd disagree. I picked up a dual-sim Windows phone, unlocked, for $150 at the Microsoft store.

I've already taken advantage of it being unlocked by switching carriers (saved some bucks) when I saw the prices on one were now better than what I'd been paying.

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#112

'eSIM' is on the way to replace sim cards. The biggest challenge of 'downloading a sim card' to a secure enclave on a phone is of course security. The GSMA and members (i.e. telcos) have been working on secure remote provisioning. I think it'll take a while for the technology to make it in to consumer devices, though it's likely to be used in IoT relatively soon. It takes a long time to spec these things up collabora…

Actually there is at least one company already offering Remote-Sim-Provisioning. https://medium.com/@ComfortWay_Glob/cwsim-freedom-of-connect... They are selling local data-plans abroad without switching the SIM card by implementing RSP. Calls are coming in 2017, also promising a portable phone number later that year.

Sure, they do remote provisioning, but it's not eSIM in that there is still a sim card! I assume they use some special USSD codes to switch to their provisioning carrier and use a normal network connection to do that.

In the case of a true eSIM, there is no sim card at all, it's stored on the device it's self with a lower level bootstraping profile (i.e. not an alternative pre-programmed carrier)

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#113

The actual reason it's still a thing is because changing how thousands of network operators work in over 200 countries is quite difficult to coordinate. Even Apple tried to push a soft-SIM and couldn't get it going. But I'm glad for it, because the foresight of the designers of GSM to put your private key in a smartcard has absolutely improved consumer choice worldwide. I can buy an unlocked phone, travel to any coun…

The phone can theoretically work but the network operator can still ban your phone, even if it has a valid SIM, by manufacturer, software version, baseband version or a host of other reasons.

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#114

Personally I really appreciate the fact that providers have SIMs. Verizon (major network in the USA) used to NOT have SIMs, and it was a huge pain to change phones out. Now it's as simple as swapping out the SIM. I hear you that it should be doable in software, although I'd argue that if anything you should still need the SIM as a sort of second factor. (Otherwise you run the risk of people stealing your phone accoun…

same! whenever i travel, i can get a sim card on that country and use my phone like i was using before.

without that, i would have to either buy a local phone or deal with how expensive my carrier makes to use internet outside my own country.

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#115
post #81

As others have pointed out, SIM cards are basically smart cards. There's PKI, private keys, the ability to perform mutual authentication (although that's not usually done, at least in .us), and much more. Honestly, I wish their use would expand into other areas of our lives -- replacing username and password combinations for various devices (working for an ISP, home routers are one good example). As much as I'm again…

Sadly, encrypting e-mail will break all current anti-spam methods.

Not exactly. Some methods won't be nearly as effective (such as filtering on the message body) but others (such as SPF, DKIM, and RBLs) will still work just as well as they do today.

Now that I think about, just the encryption itself will increase the computational cost of sending out spam e-mails. While today a spammer can blast out an e-mail to 100 recipients very quickly, it'll take a fair bit longer to do once the spammer has to query and retrieve 100 public keys (one for each of the recipients) and then encrypt the e-mail 100 times over.

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#116
post #42

Xiaomi offers a Virtual SIM for years now. [0] [0]: http://en.miui.com/thread-146080-1-1.html

That platform was created by a Canadian company called KnowRoaming, it's marketed as a "SoftSIM" but it is indeed a fully virtualized multi SIM/IMSI solution for global roaming.

https://www.knowroaming.com/softsim/

KnowRoaming is a Canadian MVNO which now owns a full American MNO located out of Nevada and licensed out of Missouri for spectrum.

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#117
The concept of SIM cards will slowly fade over time as M2M/IOT devices start to emerge as consumer oriented products, devices will become more oriented around "SoftSIMs" and other embedded or virtual SIM products. The ability for IOT products to move across multiple networks will become a big aspect of the IOT, you need full redundancy and reliability when your product can never be offline.

Why would I want a SIM card with one IMSI on it when I can have a SIM card with up to 20 IMSIs from various networks all around the world, or even better the ability to constantly swap and trade IMSIs from various networks, new connectivity set everyday. A global community calls for global connectivity.

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#118
post #78
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

another interesting company in this space is FlexiroamX, they have a super flat sim that sticks on top of your existing sim. It lets you soft-switch the SIM using a "SIM Application" (like mentioned elsewhere in the thread) - appears as if it unplugs and replugs to the phone. See picture of the process here: https://twitter.com/lathiat/status/758979125751054336 Works fantastically and gives me $30/GB data in pretty m…

>$30/GB Some European operators still have cheaper roaming data plans

As an example, I pay £20/month for 30GB, that can be used anywhere in the EU, USA, Canada, Australia (and a few other countries).

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#119

SIM: Subscriber Identity Module almost says it all, on top of that a SIM can store your contacts (up to a certain number). The SIM is what separates your identity from the hardware of the phone (which has its own identity called 'IMEI'). A 'software solution' would need a carrier, that carrier IS the SIM. Another nice benefit of having the SIM device is that it makes it much harder to 'clone' a subscriber ID, somethi…

I don't recall ever needing a PIN to unlock a SIM card.

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#120
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because username and password is a disaster for security. It's sole purpose is let ANY guy ANY where on the planet connect to your account. SIM cards are cryptographic hardware tokens. They are much more secure than passwords. In fact, they do need a password as well on top of the hardware token, that's the 'PIN code' you have to enter when you (re)boot your phone.

In practice SIM cards don't give you much physical security anyway. I transferred my mobile phone number etc over to a new SIM card the other week and all I needed was name, address, DOB and proof of ID... of course my network didnt have any of these on file yet, so I had to first tell them these details, and then show ID to verify that I was who I had just told them that I should be. Yeah... this is the state of con…

But that's the choice of the network operator. The SIM itself is still completely unique and identifiable, they just chose to allow customers to re-map SIM's on the fly.
Post reply on HN