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Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

sonderdesign.com

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Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#41

Post by chris_st »

monk_e_boy wrote: post #26
anexprogrammer wrote: post #15

An interesting idea, but I just don't look at my keyboards. Even so, I can't help feeling this is a much better approach than replacing F-keys with the Mac Touchbar. The touchbar could have been a great idea if above the pre-existing keys. However, if it was a Model M chassis, sculpted full travel loud mechanical keys, E-Ink, and a modern selection of media keys and volume I'd probably buy one. Regardless of how sill…

I think it'd be cool for programming, I have RSI and find using the shift key + another key painful. I also rarely use the number keys above the letters (I used num pad) so changing all those keys to the shit_key equivalent would be neat. And rearranging some of other keys would be great. And don't get me started on games, oooooh, how often to I buy a new game and forget what 'm' does? Knife? Grenade? Pickaxe?

You might consider either Autohotkey for Windows, or Keyboard Maestro for Macs (or something similar for Linux, I'm sure). You can rebind keys, including shift and control/command, to whatever or wherever you want.

I did it to get control on the caps-lock key, but never conditioned myself to use it.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#42

Post by iheartmemcache »

monk_e_boy wrote: post #26
anexprogrammer wrote: post #15

An interesting idea, but I just don't look at my keyboards. Even so, I can't help feeling this is a much better approach than replacing F-keys with the Mac Touchbar. The touchbar could have been a great idea if above the pre-existing keys. However, if it was a Model M chassis, sculpted full travel loud mechanical keys, E-Ink, and a modern selection of media keys and volume I'd probably buy one. Regardless of how sill…

I think it'd be cool for programming, I have RSI and find using the shift key + another key painful. I also rarely use the number keys above the letters (I used num pad) so changing all those keys to the shit_key equivalent would be neat. And rearranging some of other keys would be great. And don't get me started on games, oooooh, how often to I buy a new game and forget what 'm' does? Knife? Grenade? Pickaxe?

Firstly: RSI is no joke - if you're experiencing pain, there's a non-zero chance it'll develop into a serious medical condition. (At MIT's Media Lab, someone's RSI got so bad he couldn't type at all and had to invent an interface using vocal phonemes to encode common OS actions/lexical keywords to control his OS (OS X) / editor (emacs) / language of choice (python)).

If you feel even the slightest bit of pain, that's your body signalling to you 'hey buddy, don't do this'. I was suffering from emacs pinky to the point where my hands were aching hours after leaving my desk. On weekends, my tennis racket grip was significantly weaker and form poorer. Mapping Ctrl to caps, right shift to Esc, and buying a $30 MS Ergonomic keyboard solved my issues. My friends who have had worse issues spent the $300 on a Kinesis (which I had up until then considered to be snake oil) but it seems to have solved their issues entirely (and for $300 it's definitely a cheap investment compared to the opportunity cost of the time invested in physical therapy).

If you're on Linux, you can at the os-level make modal changes. I made the right-alt key move into a different mode, so I effectively get an entirely separate key-mapping when that key is depressed. (E.g., hjkl for me is OS-wide, and sdfg lets me move the cursor. nb. Were I to make this decision again, I'd use Caps as my primary modifier, [ as my secondary, effectively giving me four full keyboard maps. Probably overkill but if I were using something like SolidWorks or Illustrator where having both keyboard and mouse access available often, I'd be experimenting with a setup like that -- keeping my right hand always on the mouse, and left for keyboard shortcuts -- biasing all of the shortcut keys to the left-hand region of the keyboard.)

ErgoDox implements a similar system but on the micro-controller level so you don't even have to putz with modifiers and it's cross OS. I don't have one but I would have bought one if I used a desktop more often, simply due to the trackball-feature (effectively letting one use a mouse without leaving the home-row -- a 'must-have' for me).

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#43

Post by Quequau »

This is the sort of thing that I'd prefer for a second generation so I could get one with all the kinks ironed out.

Also for all those folks saying they don't look at their keyboards while typing: I don't either, except for when I have a particular key stroke committed to muscle memory, which is to say for all new applications that I would like to begin using.

Having something like this would substantially lower the barrier to entry for all keyboard centric apps. So to me it's worth it, even if I know going in that I wouldn't always look at the changing keycaps when I used them.

All that said, I gotta admit that now that I know Apple's Touch Bar is a thing, I would very, very much like to see it, or something like it, stuck on this keyboard.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#44

Post by Etheryte »

persimmon_b wrote: post #20

Can't help but feel like people are only thinking about programming with this. For someone who speaks multiple languages, being able to switch between configurations as easily as you can on a phone seems like it would be super useful.

I speak (and type in) two languages that have different layouts. While I touch-type most of the time, I still need to look for some things occasionally. Eventually I simply got custom printed keycaps from WASD where one language has symbols in upper right, the other in upper left.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#46

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

persimmon_b wrote: post #20

Can't help but feel like people are only thinking about programming with this. For someone who speaks multiple languages, being able to switch between configurations as easily as you can on a phone seems like it would be super useful.

Languages, app hot keys, emoji, game controls, custom performance options for laptop DJs, musicians, VJs, etc...

Many applications.

This looks really interesting. Yes/no depends on key feel.

I wasn't convinced by the Apple chiclet keyboard when I saw it, but I've lived with one for a year and a half now, and I'm completely comfortable with it.

If this has a similar feel I'll be seriously tempted.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#47

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

anotheryou wrote: post #30
Veen wrote: post #7

It looks cool, but I don't like that the e-ink displays are deep in the key caps rather than at the top. Perhaps it's a technological limitation.

Almost looks like they went for one big e-ink screen underneath and moved the mechanics out of the way between the keys. The "blueprint" also shows such a rectangle that could be one big screen just behind the changing keys. I wouldn't order it before not reading a review about how the feel of the probably new mechanics is. How black is black on backlit e-ink? I'm thinking of an inverted theme, because I don't want a…

It's almost certainly a single display. Mini-caps would be expensive and very difficult to build reliably.

The e-ink displays I've seen aren't brilliant at black. It's usually somewhere between 50% to 75% gray. That may well be enough, but I think a lot of people are going to want to see a production sample before buying.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#48

Post by ZenoArrow »

ianai wrote: post #5

I really want to like this, but I never look at the keyboard. I wish this were a general purpose display.

A general purpose e-ink display?

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/paperlike-world-s-first-e...

I have one. They work fine as a second monitor (no Linux support yet though, Windows and Mac only).

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#49

Post by lostlogin »

mbreese wrote: post #8
feketegy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What integrated experience when you can't even connect your iPhone to your Mac without an adapter?

There are better arguments for Apple's connectivity issues. I haven't had to directly attach my phone to my Mac in years. Sure, there are use-cases, but really, how many people plug their phones into their computers on a regular basis?

Getting anything you make onto an iPhone from Xcode would be my pain point.

Re: Sonder E-Ink Keyboard

#50

Post by anexprogrammer »

monk_e_boy wrote: post #26
anexprogrammer wrote: post #15

An interesting idea, but I just don't look at my keyboards. Even so, I can't help feeling this is a much better approach than replacing F-keys with the Mac Touchbar. The touchbar could have been a great idea if above the pre-existing keys. However, if it was a Model M chassis, sculpted full travel loud mechanical keys, E-Ink, and a modern selection of media keys and volume I'd probably buy one. Regardless of how sill…

I think it'd be cool for programming, I have RSI and find using the shift key + another key painful. I also rarely use the number keys above the letters (I used num pad) so changing all those keys to the shit_key equivalent would be neat. And rearranging some of other keys would be great. And don't get me started on games, oooooh, how often to I buy a new game and forget what 'm' does? Knife? Grenade? Pickaxe?

Having recently noticed a little carpal tunnel (though in truth I don't know how to distinguish the two) and got rather sensitive to where my wrists rest on a laptop I can sympathise! I switched to a vertical mouse earlier in the year which has helped massively. My right wrist was always the most affected, and it turns out it was mostly down to mousing.

Very true on games. I'd use for this too, and learning. Like someone else mentions a reactive keyboard would have been great when I was learning vi!

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