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Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#61

Post by glennos »

vidarh wrote: post #25

On the contrary, it is the result of a concerted effort to reduce friction. With SIM cards, users can switch to a new phone by just moving the SIM, or switch to a new provider while keeping their phone (assuming its unlocked) by just replacing the SIM. Prior to SIM cards phones where frequently programmed to be tied to a specific provider. A pure software solution could work, but requires the network operators to be…

I take the point on the security of physical + pin for protection. I guess I'd just love a solution where I could simply switch between accounts without physically swapping something or having a multi-SIM phone.

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#62

Post by uph »

jacquesm wrote: post #32
uph wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People with security, budget and privacy concern go for flip phones. No. That ensures you can't send encrypted messages or do encrypted calls. Also see one of the reasons Signal moved to sending encrypted messages as data and stopped supporting encrypted messages sent as sms. > SMS and MMS are a security disaster. They leak all possible metadata 100% of the time to thousands of cellular carriers worldwide. It's com…

Well, they at least they no longer leak them to the servers of every application provider on their smartphone.

Apps on your smartphone only get access to your messages if you give them permission.

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#63

Post by jacquesm »

uph wrote: post #62
jacquesm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they at least they no longer leak them to the servers of every application provider on their smartphone.

Apps on your smartphone only get access to your messages if you give them permission.

Apps routinely ask for many more permissions than they have reason to and users have been conditioned to just 'get it over with'. Technically you are right, in practice users hand over the keys to the kingdom without a moments pause to think of the implications.

Now, you could of course argue that they only have themselves to blame.

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#64

Post by glennos »

lathiat wrote: post #57
synchrone wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually there is at least one company already offering Remote-Sim-Provisioning. https://medium.com/@ComfortWay_Glob/cwsim-freedom-of-connect... They are selling local data-plans abroad without switching the SIM card by implementing RSP. Calls are coming in 2017, also promising a portable phone number later that year.

another interesting company in this space is FlexiroamX, they have a super flat sim that sticks on top of your existing sim. It lets you soft-switch the SIM using a "SIM Application" (like mentioned elsewhere in the thread) - appears as if it unplugs and replugs to the phone. See picture of the process here: https://twitter.com/lathiat/status/758979125751054336 Works fantastically and gives me $30/GB data in pretty m…

Super interesting. So the overlay tricks the phone into thinking there's 2 SIMs in the phone?

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#65

Post by uph »

jacquesm wrote: post #63
uph wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apps on your smartphone only get access to your messages if you give them permission.

Apps routinely ask for many more permissions than they have reason to and users have been conditioned to just 'get it over with'. Technically you are right, in practice users hand over the keys to the kingdom without a moments pause to think of the implications. Now, you could of course argue that they only have themselves to blame.

I'd argue that if someone wants to get a flip phone for privacy reasons they should be able to not download shady apps and give them permissions without thinking.

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#66

Post by jacquesm »

uph wrote: post #65
jacquesm wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apps routinely ask for many more permissions than they have reason to and users have been conditioned to just 'get it over with'. Technically you are right, in practice users hand over the keys to the kingdom without a moments pause to think of the implications. Now, you could of course argue that they only have themselves to blame.

I'd argue that if someone wants to get a flip phone for privacy reasons they should be able to not download shady apps and give them permissions without thinking.

Flip phones have some of the best protections available: the sensors aren't there. You can't leak your location if there is no GPS module in your phone, you can't have your camera hacked if there is no camera and so on.

I'd prefer all this stuff came with physical switches so it can be enabled/disabled in a hack-proof manner.

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#68

Post by Dwolb »

vidarh wrote: post #15
Dwolb wrote: post #9

There are some solutions out that are in software that are "eSIM" which allow devices to switch carriers through an OTA update. Also see a company called SIMless. There's a lot of market momentum around SIM cards and it keeps a telco's offering really sticky. It is more effort for people to swap hardware instead of software.

> There's a lot of market momentum around SIM cards and it keeps a telco's offering really sticky. It is more effort for people to swap hardware instead of software. I'd love to see evidence of this. Switching SIMs is something non-technical users do regularly.

I'm afraid I don't have hard evidence. The logic is for normal cell phone use it's more friction to swap a SIM than to have the phone automatically switch network profiles (non-roaming) or for the user to switch network profiles via software setting.

For IoT cellular the logic is it's more effort to recall a device and swap a SIM card than to reprovision the SIM profile via a software dashboard.

I'm sure we could put our minds together to come up with a robust user study. Thoughts?

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#69

Post by icebraining »

glennos wrote: post #61
vidarh wrote: post #25

On the contrary, it is the result of a concerted effort to reduce friction. With SIM cards, users can switch to a new phone by just moving the SIM, or switch to a new provider while keeping their phone (assuming its unlocked) by just replacing the SIM. Prior to SIM cards phones where frequently programmed to be tied to a specific provider. A pure software solution could work, but requires the network operators to be…

I take the point on the security of physical + pin for protection. I guess I'd just love a solution where I could simply switch between accounts without physically swapping something or having a multi-SIM phone.

But why? Multi-SIM phones are cheap and easy to come by.

Re: Ask HN: Why are SIM cards still a thing?

#70

Post by uph »

jacquesm wrote: post #66
uph wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that if someone wants to get a flip phone for privacy reasons they should be able to not download shady apps and give them permissions without thinking.

Flip phones have some of the best protections available: the sensors aren't there. You can't leak your location if there is no GPS module in your phone, you can't have your camera hacked if there is no camera and so on. I'd prefer all this stuff came with physical switches so it can be enabled/disabled in a hack-proof manner.

Location tracking is possible without GPS module https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking

What's your threat model? https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/introduction-threat-modeling

For most people mass surveillance is a more realistic threat than the NSA hacking their camera.

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