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Thomas Piketty’s Capital in the 21st Century, in 20 minutes (2014) [video]

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Re: Thomas Piketty’s Capital in the 21st Century, in 20 minutes (2014) [video]

#151

Post by tmnvix »

VodkaHaze wrote: post #40
tmnvix wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. We should be taxing wealth and not income (or roughly speaking, unearned instead of earned income). Taxing productive activity is literally counter-productive. This will only become a more pressing issue once automation (esp. of the transport industry) gets into full-swing. Eventually we won't have a choice in the matter. There are a whole host of current issues that are culminating in wealth and income dist…

> We should be taxing wealth and not income (or roughly speaking, unearned instead of earned income). You'll see most economists advocating a consumption tax, instead. > quantitive easing pumping up asset prices while doing nothing for the real economy Both the "pumping up asset prices" and "while doing nothing for the real economy" is extremely disputable. It's kind of pompous of you to think you know better than th…

> You'll see most economists advocating a consumption tax, instead.

I was under the impression that a land value tax was the most widely supported amongst economists (due to its efficiency, lack of distorting effects, and difficulty in avoiding).

> Both the "pumping up asset prices" and "while doing nothing for the real economy" is extremely disputable. It's kind of pompous of you to think you know better than the team of PhDs at the Fed, too.

See Richard Koo regarding balance sheet recessions for a less pompous assertion that QE does little to help. There are plenty of other eminent economists such as Mr Koo who also disagree with the FED's 'team of PhD's'.

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Capital in the 21st Century, in 20 minutes (2014) [video]

#152

Post by patrickg_zill »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #120
patrickg_zill wrote: post #22

My problem with this book is that he doesn't deal at all with the gold standard. During the timeline of his survey, the currencies were almost all gold-backed and by the end, are all fiat currencies. He completely ignores it, yet at the least he should have explained why it was not relevant.

It's because the gold standard is meaningless, only trotted out by gold bugs conspiracy theorists. The concentration and division of wealth is what matters, not nominal values or gold pieces.

If gold is so meaningless, why is it continually being purchased by central banks?

Maybe you need to share your economic wisdom with China (buying several hundred tonnes per year) or Russia (bought 200,000 ounces in the July 2016 alone).

You don't agree, fine. But "conspiracy theory" is just an ad hominem at this point.

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Capital in the 21st Century, in 20 minutes (2014) [video]

#153

Post by ap22213 »

loki49152 wrote: post #140
broke_wagon wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communism isn't some "radical" boogeyman, it's just a process to eliminate inequality. (Why should there be any inequality at all?) We don't need to be diminutive about relatively different ideas; that's unhelpful at best.

Communism is a very specific ideology with a well-known, well-documented content and intellectual history. It isn't "just a process" for anything. Communism is evil because its ideology has no relationship with reality and will inevitably be a practical disaster anywhere it's implemented to the degree that it's implemented as a result. There's no escaping it any more than you can escape the laws of physics.

By that description, it sounds like a Bogeyman [1] to me.

Anyway, I live in a mostly Capitalist system, and it's also authoritarian. The only thing that seems to keep it from spiraling into complete evil is that a democratic Leviathan [2] happens to rule over it. (Of course, the capitalism is always in a constant assault for control).

What's funny to me is that I have several neighbors who fervently describe themselves as pro-capitalist libertarians. Yet, when I'm out of coffee or I need my driveway plowed, they do it for free. Why is that? Probably because we are all friends and have common culture and mutual trust.

When people invoke the idea of communism they usually mean: why can't we all have a society where we all act as neighbors. Sure, that's a daunting goal, of course. But, it's no less impossible as when people invented the idea of the social contract. Or any of the other million inventions that people said were crazy or impossible.

[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogeyman

[2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_(book)

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Capital in the 21st Century, in 20 minutes (2014) [video]

#154

Post by slashcom »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #134
WalterBright wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wealth is taxed by inflation.

Yes, if you hide it under your bed, or have it in some investment vehicle which isn't itself tied to inflation.

But if you have it tied into an investment vehicle, then you're taking some risk and putting that wealth to use.

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Capital in the 21st Century, in 20 minutes (2014) [video]

#155

Post by Mikeb85 »

patrickg_zill wrote: post #152
Mikeb85 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because the gold standard is meaningless, only trotted out by gold bugs conspiracy theorists. The concentration and division of wealth is what matters, not nominal values or gold pieces.

If gold is so meaningless, why is it continually being purchased by central banks? Maybe you need to share your economic wisdom with China (buying several hundred tonnes per year) or Russia (bought 200,000 ounces in the July 2016 alone). You don't agree, fine. But "conspiracy theory" is just an ad hominem at this point.

They also buy other currencies (both have foreign reserves in the hundreds of billions), commodities (gold, oil, silver, aluminum), stocks and bonds, etc...

Gold's value is as a commodity, and a historic store of value, much like other commodities (businesses and governments also hoard oil to ride out price and fluctuations). But it's not about to replace fiat any time soon (or ever again really).

Edit - I should add, at various times throughout history, grain, livestock and spices were all used as currency. Gold's special place comes from the fact it was one of the very first metals to be worked (~7000 years ago), it's easy to work, it doesn't tarnish, and of course it's shiny (so it was widely used as jewellery). It's durability and perceived value allowed it to be traded in a way that you can't trade goats or barley. But at the same time, there's nothing particularly special about it, it's always traded much the same as other durable commodities, that fact is just hidden sometimes by the fact that for a period of history, everything was compared to gold, instead of another unit.

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Capital in the 21st Century, in 20 minutes (2014) [video]

#156

Post by dools »

slashcom wrote: post #154
tasty_freeze wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you hide it under your bed, or have it in some investment vehicle which isn't itself tied to inflation.

But if you have it tied into an investment vehicle, then you're taking some risk and putting that wealth to use.

Government treasuries are a risk free asset: the government is never constrained in its ability to meet payments in USD.

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Capital in the 21st Century, in 20 minutes (2014) [video]

#157

Post by nyokodo »

Thomas Piketty is not without major critics so here are some. Short pieces: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL90pISm7Y8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqIGnPw3Qkg https://mises.org/library/thomas-piketty-inequality-and-capi... Longer scholarly piece: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Papers.cfm?abstract_id=2543012

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Capital in the 21st Century, in 20 minutes (2014) [video]

#158

Post by nathan_f77 »

Serious question: How much more information do you typically retain by reading all 696 pages, versus watching a 20 minute summary?

The linked webpage talks about that, saying that it needed to be condensed into a TED talk because the book scared of many people (myself included).

But for all the prodigious evidence, how much do you really remember? Does any of it come up in conversation at a dinner party?

> Piketty predicted (correctly) [that it] ... would attract vicious assaults from the mainstream of economic thought.

Ah, so is this more of an academic thing. Not just for the layperson, but for the economist. Like a dissertation that needs to be backed up with a ton of evidence and references. Ok, I think I answered my own question. I also just changed my own attitude towards reading books like this. It's not entertainment, it's knowledge.

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Capital in the 21st Century, in 20 minutes (2014) [video]

#159

Post by dredmorbius »

WalterBright wrote: post #125
kashkhan wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is wealth regulated, and do you have a wealth tax?

Wealth is taxed by inflation.

Currency, and currency-denominated assets (e.g., loans) are reduced in value by inflation.

Real wealth -- land, plant, equipment, labour, intellectual capital -- are not currency-denominated, and are not affected by inflation.

Invest in real assets (and avoid bubbles). You're inflation-proofed.

Re: Thomas Piketty’s Capital in the 21st Century, in 20 minutes (2014) [video]

#160

Post by dools »

jernfrost wrote: post #76

I wish more people could have Thomas Piketty's balanced view on capitalism. Too often it is treated as some sort of game where you have to pick sides whether you are for or against capitalism. Especially in America there seems to be a kneejerk reaction to any calls for regulations or moderations of the effects of the free market. Usually it is dismissed without further discussion with "look what happened in the east…

If you want to encourage a more sober view of capitalism, then you need to help change people's creation story of money.

Here is an article I wrote on the subject:

https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/w...

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