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Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

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Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#71

Post by khc »

nulagrithom wrote: post #46

I feel like the people complaining about how many libraries there are in this stack don't know what these tools do. Most are small tools that do one thing very well. Yarn installs packages, much like Gem, NuGet, whatever. Pretty standard. React is a frontend framework. Not surprising that you'd use one. I suppose you could opt to write a giant pile of vanilla JavaScript instead (I'm assuming you're not using this kit…

I think the reason most of us dislike the ecosystem isn't because therre are many libraries and tools in the stack. In the C-world, every time you type 'make' I am probably executing two dozen different programs, so we are very comfortable with "Make each program do one thing well".

The problem that most of us dislike the javascript/web ecosystem is that those set of libraries and tools keep changing every couple years. As someone who doesn't do this as a full time job but once in a while has to poke his head out to the other side, it's really hard to keep up with even the acronyms. For example, I know that we are using npm, but now you say we should use yarn?!

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#72

Post by joshkpeterson »

stevoski wrote: post #61

From section 1 of the tutorial: > Since it came out in October 2016, [Yarn] received a very quick adoption and is becoming the new package manager of choice of the JavaScript community. We are going to use Yarn in this tutorial. It's October 2016 as I write. Tell me this tutorial is satire. Please.

The thing is, Yarn is likely to supersede npm at the command line so this is really future-proof.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#73

Post by threeseed »

morgante wrote: post #47
nulagrithom wrote: post #46

I feel like the people complaining about how many libraries there are in this stack don't know what these tools do. Most are small tools that do one thing very well. Yarn installs packages, much like Gem, NuGet, whatever. Pretty standard. React is a frontend framework. Not surprising that you'd use one. I suppose you could opt to write a giant pile of vanilla JavaScript instead (I'm assuming you're not using this kit…

I like it too. People vastly over-estimate the complexity of these tools. As a freelancer, I start a new project every other week or so. It's really not hard to get up and running with these tools. They're also incrementally adoptable: since most of them are loosely coupled, you can get started with a new one without rewriting your whole stack (for example, I first used React with Gulp+Browserify, not I've switched t…

The complexity of the tools isn't the problem.

It's the fact that the entire Javascript community seems to suffer from ADHD and is constantly inventing a new tool that is marginally better than the last.

So for those us who don't do front end development we come back and suddenly have to learn 20 new tools.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#74

Post by [deleted] »

threeseed wrote: post #73
morgante wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like it too. People vastly over-estimate the complexity of these tools. As a freelancer, I start a new project every other week or so. It's really not hard to get up and running with these tools. They're also incrementally adoptable: since most of them are loosely coupled, you can get started with a new one without rewriting your whole stack (for example, I first used React with Gulp+Browserify, not I've switched t…

The complexity of the tools isn't the problem. It's the fact that the entire Javascript community seems to suffer from ADHD and is constantly inventing a new tool that is marginally better than the last. So for those us who don't do front end development we come back and suddenly have to learn 20 new tools.

[deleted]

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#75

Post by voltagex_ »

dceddia wrote: post #43
Wintamute wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The create-react-app tool from Facebook lets you create a "modern" (air quotes yours) web app with one development dependency and zero configuration. https://facebook.github.io/react/blog/2016/07/22/create-apps... It's surprisingly full featured. Testing, ES6, CSS, live reload dev server, building for production ... everything you need for the majority of React based web app builds. Literally up and running in minute…

I'll add a second vote for create-react-app; it's a great tool. It gets a project up-and-running fast and contains basically all you need. It's not a "boilerplate" that dictates which libraries you use (in terms of Redux, Router, HTTP, etc.). So here's the interesting part: it basically turns your build into a dependency, with all the pros and cons that entails. CRA is regularly updated so if you choose to, you can k…

Say create-react-app stops being updated / maintained in a year or so, how hard would it be to "untangle" my project from it? With Javascript communities moving so fast, I worry about being left behind, or not being able to update when I need to (or the inverse, not being able to stay on a stable version)

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#76

Post by [deleted] »

khc wrote: post #71
nulagrithom wrote: post #46

I feel like the people complaining about how many libraries there are in this stack don't know what these tools do. Most are small tools that do one thing very well. Yarn installs packages, much like Gem, NuGet, whatever. Pretty standard. React is a frontend framework. Not surprising that you'd use one. I suppose you could opt to write a giant pile of vanilla JavaScript instead (I'm assuming you're not using this kit…

I think the reason most of us dislike the ecosystem isn't because therre are many libraries and tools in the stack. In the C-world, every time you type 'make' I am probably executing two dozen different programs, so we are very comfortable with "Make each program do one thing well". The problem that most of us dislike the javascript/web ecosystem is that those set of libraries and tools keep changing every couple yea…

[deleted]

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#77

Post by peller »

voltagex_ wrote: post #75
dceddia wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll add a second vote for create-react-app; it's a great tool. It gets a project up-and-running fast and contains basically all you need. It's not a "boilerplate" that dictates which libraries you use (in terms of Redux, Router, HTTP, etc.). So here's the interesting part: it basically turns your build into a dependency, with all the pros and cons that entails. CRA is regularly updated so if you choose to, you can k…

Say create-react-app stops being updated / maintained in a year or so, how hard would it be to "untangle" my project from it? With Javascript communities moving so fast, I worry about being left behind, or not being able to update when I need to (or the inverse, not being able to stay on a stable version)

Just one command to decouple your project: "eject"

https://github.com/facebookincubator/create-react-app#conver...

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#78

Post by pault »

stevoski wrote: post #61

From section 1 of the tutorial: > Since it came out in October 2016, [Yarn] received a very quick adoption and is becoming the new package manager of choice of the JavaScript community. We are going to use Yarn in this tutorial. It's October 2016 as I write. Tell me this tutorial is satire. Please.

Welcome to front end development. :)

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#79

Post by pault »

nightski wrote: post #64
ng12 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think you get to a standard library? How do you package the best tools when you don't know what the best tools are?

How long do you think something like that should take? It's already been 25 years... I think it says something about the browser ecosystem and the language itself. The entire WPF ecosystem for example was developed and refined in a fraction of this period. Heck even .NET itself is only 14 years old.

I don't think that's really a fair comparison. I would argue that you should start counting from the adoption of UMD modules and npm for package management, since a universal package format and dependency management are requisite for an ecosystem to get of the ground.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#80

Post by [deleted] »

nightski wrote: post #64
ng12 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think you get to a standard library? How do you package the best tools when you don't know what the best tools are?

How long do you think something like that should take? It's already been 25 years... I think it says something about the browser ecosystem and the language itself. The entire WPF ecosystem for example was developed and refined in a fraction of this period. Heck even .NET itself is only 14 years old.

[deleted]
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