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Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

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Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#31

Post by elnado »

bsou wrote: post #7

Alternative stack that gets you much of the same stuff with less: TypeScript, React, Redux, Webpack, Immutable, Ava - TypeScript covers much of the benefit of es6/babel/eslint/flow, Ava covers chai/mocha, and webpack can cover most of what gulp provides

Yeah ultimately what all this is trying to achieve is to make JavaScript have the basic properties and benefits of many other languages. Unlike other languages, JavaScript was developed in 10 days in 1995 and was never intended to be used as heavily as it is today, hence the gargantuan amount of packages and modules to rectify it's shortcomings.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#32

Post by elnado »

LordHeini wrote: post #26
ourmandave wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come Nov 1st, it will be so last month .

Don't forget that next month someone will pull down his trivial package doing uppercase or something and the whole stack (of cards) will come crashing down. Lately there was some great post here on hn mocking all that js framework lunacy. But i guess that joke is old now as well... But seriously does someone use this to do proper work? And if so does this person expect this to be maintainable in the near future?

Yes.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#33

Post by fourthark »

treehau5 wrote: post #21
Wintamute wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The create-react-app tool from Facebook lets you create a "modern" (air quotes yours) web app with one development dependency and zero configuration. https://facebook.github.io/react/blog/2016/07/22/create-apps... It's surprisingly full featured. Testing, ES6, CSS, live reload dev server, building for production ... everything you need for the majority of React based web app builds. Literally up and running in minute…

It's funny, but if some of these people griping about web development tried to unpack their favorite enterprise framework, like Spring MVC or whatever J2EE/.NET architecture they are running, there would be way more packages and bundles wrapped up together. It's just the web is finally getting to a good place.

Yeah, difference is between a "standard library" with a million components, and a million independently distributed components. With the usual tradeoffs between centralization and competition.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#34

Post by rubber_duck »

ng12 wrote: post #8
anon1253 wrote: post #3

I appreciate the effort, certainly do. But, and this a big but: the amount of tooling, libraries, complexity and systems needed for a "modern" web app is almost comical at this point.

Are you sure it doesn't seem that way to you because you're less familiar with the ecosystem? Compare it to a Java backend. You might pick Ant, Ivy, Docker, Dropwizard, Guice, Jersey, Jackson, Mockito, JUnit, etc. I don't consider that to be radically less complex than the front-end stack proposed here -- but it just seems that way because a lot of those are "de facto" tools.

The thing is - other platforms have a 'happy path' that covers a lot of use cases and is straightforward to setup and use. JS, similar to C++, does not have this.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#35

Post by gravypod »

ng12 wrote: post #8
anon1253 wrote: post #3

I appreciate the effort, certainly do. But, and this a big but: the amount of tooling, libraries, complexity and systems needed for a "modern" web app is almost comical at this point.

Are you sure it doesn't seem that way to you because you're less familiar with the ecosystem? Compare it to a Java backend. You might pick Ant, Ivy, Docker, Dropwizard, Guice, Jersey, Jackson, Mockito, JUnit, etc. I don't consider that to be radically less complex than the front-end stack proposed here -- but it just seems that way because a lot of those are "de facto" tools.

It depends on what you're building. I think Java really shines better in the backend long-lived services realm. If you're just writing something that doesn't need any fancy "web" layers plain Java in a plain Eclipse project is all you need to get going. Nothing more. You just need to know how to type and what you're trying to do and most things you want to do are very easy to accomplish.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#37

Post by k__ »

vmasto wrote: post #30
k__ wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many alternatives to chai/mocha. Ava, Jest and Tape. I wouldn't consider Webpack an alternative to Gulp. Gulp is more generic. But if you use Webpack you can replace to task-runner part with a few scripts. When using ES6 or TypeScript I'd also consider Immutable to be optional, because of "const" and "Object.assign()/Spread-Operator". Also, React & Redux can be replaced with 1 thing, when you use a framewor…

Nit: not sure why you mention const. It does not provide any kind of immutability assurance.

I just use const instead of var/let all the time and it prevented me from overriding the variable later, which forced me to write my code a bit more functional then before I used it.

I know that I can still change indirect references or override valueOf() etc.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#38

Post by hhsnopek »

anon1253 wrote: post #3

I appreciate the effort, certainly do. But, and this a big but: the amount of tooling, libraries, complexity and systems needed for a "modern" web app is almost comical at this point.

I agree, all you really need is webpack and vuejs

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#39

Post by giancarlostoro »

anon1253 wrote: post #3

I appreciate the effort, certainly do. But, and this a big but: the amount of tooling, libraries, complexity and systems needed for a "modern" web app is almost comical at this point.

I've never been a front-end guy, and now the barrier grows with all these frameworks to make amazing applications still holding me back. Plus the fact that if I have NoScript installed, all my work is now pointless. I hate going to websites that literally don't work @ all if I have no JavaScript enabled, with the exception of HN and those rare sites that have minimal JavaScript in use.

Re: Step-by-step tutorial to build a modern JavaScript stack from scratch

#40

Post by KON_Air »

Wintamute wrote: post #17
anon1253 wrote: post #3

I appreciate the effort, certainly do. But, and this a big but: the amount of tooling, libraries, complexity and systems needed for a "modern" web app is almost comical at this point.

The create-react-app tool from Facebook lets you create a "modern" (air quotes yours) web app with one development dependency and zero configuration. https://facebook.github.io/react/blog/2016/07/22/create-apps... It's surprisingly full featured. Testing, ES6, CSS, live reload dev server, building for production ... everything you need for the majority of React based web app builds. Literally up and running in minute…

Not that I'm not using JavaScript to do things, it was never meant to do, but I don't know, using "modern" or "comprehensible" in same sentence with "JavaScript" always makes me giggle.
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