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Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

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Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#11

Post by krastanov »

denzil_correa wrote: post #7
revelation wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, spare one of the trillion transistors to switch power to 1) camera and 2) LED. There, solved. No full-powered ARM needed to control an indicator light.

The ARM was not bought to power the LED, it was bought in for TouchID. The camera LED is the icing, not the cake.

They have a point though. Why would there be any software that controls the LED? Is it not more secure to have it hooked up directly to the camera power line and turn them both on and off inseparably?

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#12

Post by shawkinaw »

fowlerpower wrote: post #10

The one thing I will say is even though Apple's software quality lately has taken a hit. Their commitment to security has only gotten stronger. The secure enclave, hardware level security, all of the things that came up with the FBI request have become a self serving prophecy for them. I applaud them for this and it looks like the MacBook Pro is going to be one of the most secure laptops around. Nothing is perfect of…

You mean the headphone jack that is still there?

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#13

Post by johnm1019 »

revelation wrote: post #5
denzil_correa wrote: post #3

Wired has an interesting and in-depth article on this. Also, the camera seems to have more security than earlier. > In the MacBook, the Secure Enclave is part of Apple’s new T1 processor, meaning it’s tied explicitly to the touch bar and Touch ID. It’s also, though, in charge of your webcam, a small but important difference. > “In previous generations of Macbook the webcam light was software controlled—which meant th…

Or, you know, spare one of the trillion transistors to switch power to 1) camera and 2) LED. There, solved. No full-powered ARM needed to control an indicator light.

I'm guessing it's not that simple because there may be situations when the camera has power and is capturing an image (think hot-standby) but is not transmitting image data to the world outside the sensor package.

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#14

Post by a2tech »

krastanov wrote: post #11
denzil_correa wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ARM was not bought to power the LED, it was bought in for TouchID. The camera LED is the icing, not the cake.

They have a point though. Why would there be any software that controls the LED? Is it not more secure to have it hooked up directly to the camera power line and turn them both on and off inseparably?

Post 2013? that's exactly how it was hooked up.

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#15

Post by adrianN »

johnm1019 wrote: post #13
revelation wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, spare one of the trillion transistors to switch power to 1) camera and 2) LED. There, solved. No full-powered ARM needed to control an indicator light.

I'm guessing it's not that simple because there may be situations when the camera has power and is capturing an image (think hot-standby) but is not transmitting image data to the world outside the sensor package.

I don't want my camera to capture pictures without the LED being on, ever.

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#16

Post by denzil_correa »

revelation wrote: post #8

Who cares, now the LED is connected to the "secure enclave" ARM, previously it was connected to the SMC ARM. The point is: no frikken ARM should control the LED.

Earlier, it was software controlled. Now, it is not. Isn't that a good thing?

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#17

Post by cm3 »

krastanov wrote: post #9

Any idea whether this secure enclave will work if you are running Linux? (I like the hardware, but I am more used to the Linux/GNU/gnome software)

Given that iSight and Facetime HD cameras required drivers and firmware to get running under Linux, I would be positively surprised if the new camera is easier to set up, meaning I don't think it works right now. Even the existing camera support isn't 100%, with features like suspend/resume being flaky, all due to it being reverse engineered.

That said, the options for developer laptops has shifted in favor of general x86 computers, including very light-weight machines and ones with mechanical keyboards. If I want to use Linux on it, my first choice wouldn't be a macbook. So, unless you require macos for work, you have have a more diverse variety of laptops to find one that suites you best.

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#18

Post by userbinator »

ginko wrote: post #4

Not really that surprising. Your average laptop nowadays probably has more ARM cores than x86 cores. They're in all kinds of peripherials like wifi controllers, power supplies, harddisk controllers, GPU job control, heck even AMD's recent APUs come with an integrated Cortex-A5.[1] ARM cores are everywhere, people just don't know about it. [1] http://www.anandtech.com/show/6007/amd-2013-apus-to-include-...

Laptops have what is known as an "embedded controller" to handle peripherals like keyboard/touchpad, power management, and fan control. Most of them seem to be low-power 8/16-bit MCUs like 8051 and H8S, but I wouldn't be surprised if newer ones use ARM too.

...and don't forget Intel ME, which is not ARM but another processor in the system.

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#19

Post by userbinator »

denzil_correa wrote: post #16
revelation wrote: post #8

Who cares, now the LED is connected to the "secure enclave" ARM, previously it was connected to the SMC ARM. The point is: no frikken ARM should control the LED.

Earlier, it was software controlled. Now, it is not. Isn't that a good thing?

It is still software controlled; by software on a separate processor, and which is far harder to access than before. I'm not sure if that's a good thing.

Re: Intel driven MacBook Pros have secondary ARM processor for Touch ID and security

#20

Post by userbinator »

Though transmission of data is handled by the main processor, Apple Pay dialogs on screen are completely rendered by the T1 to take advantage of the Secure Enclave, a portion of the chip set aside for personal information just as it is in iPhones and Apple Watch devices.

That sounds similar in concept to Intel ME, another "secure" coprocessor that can do a lot of other things that the more paranoid are freaking out over...

It also makes me wonder if these MacBook Pros also have Intel ME.

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