Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

airbnb.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 196 posts

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#121

Post by SolaceQuantum »

tnone wrote: post #110
hannob wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with that? You don't have to use their service. They are not in a situation that they have to provide service to everyone. I don't see a problem when a company says "if you're a racist you're not allowed to use our service".

Accusations like "racist" mainly flow towards pre-approved victim categories and are commonly used as a blunt weapon in oppression olympics. In those cases, there is no acceptable defense against it, because the reply will be along the lines of "omg, this racist is trying to excuse their racism". Guilty until proven super-guilty. That's why this gets people's bristles up, because it reeks of the "reverse racism isn't…

I think racism is a big deal outside of the Anglo Saxon sphere. I mean, it's the non-whites that are in a position to point it out and complain about it.

Similarly, here you are speaking about your disdain for calling someone racist, and no one's saying you're trying to excuse your own racism for it. Where is this sentiment coming from?

I literally don't see people's bristles up because of "dogma". It's mostly you using his very strong language and then throwing up very significant claims without evidence, such as that post modern academia has invaded tech with totalism circulated around the supposedly untrue ideation that reverse racism isn't a thing and that racism involves structural discrimination. A large chunk of this thread is talking about how Airbnb is toeing the line between ownership of property (i.e. deciding what can be done with it) and business decision (i.e. refusing to allow your services to be used by those who discriminate).

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#122

Post by SolaceQuantum »

empath75 wrote: post #87
redthrowaway wrote: post #80

It's sad to see the tech community, which used to be very libertarian, move towards a hard-left progressive view of social issues. It wasn't that long ago that Friedman's arguments against equal pay laws[1] would have held sway here. The idea that the market punishes bigotry and so can be relied upon to advance freedom and equality used to be a core belief of the tech community. Now, it seems companies are falling ov…

It's sort of surprising how many people on hacker news apparently want the right to be racist.

They have the right to be as racist as one likes, of course, limited to hate crimes. Airbnb is making a business decision that it doesn't want to service these people. That's Airbnb's right as a business, in a classical libertarian view.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#124

Post by raesene9 »

jacquesm wrote: post #73
raesene9 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they couldn't reliably prove it, but sample based testing + public consequences for those found to be in breach of ToS (e.g. some form of financial penalty) would likely make people who intended to discriminate less likely to use the AirBnB platform.

Maybe. But the more likely outcome is that people will simply continue to do what they do until they get kicked off and that every wanna-be renter of some Airbnb listed property is going to claim 'discrimination' from now on when they are refused.

Well that's a possible outcome of course, another possibility is that people who wish to discriminate realise that AirBnB probably isn't the platform for them and move on to other approaches.

Sample auditing and enforcement with financial penalties isn't exactly an unknown approach for policies, so it seems like its a valid possible approach here.

without any attempt at enforcement, it would see that the policy would have limited impact. If people get the idea that it might be enforced, they may well be more inclined to take it seriously.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#125

Post by tacunota »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #119
tacunota wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read my comment? I said, if a Roma doesn't want to be identified as a Roma, he can because there's almost no visible differences between a Roma and a native, so if a Roma is being discriminated against, it's because he wanted it to be that way. My point is: a black will always suffer from prejudice, because he's black, and he can't change his skin colour. A Roma, on the other hand, won't be suffer from prejud…

I did, and I'm telling you racists in the U.S. think the same way, but perhaps for "I wouldn't even know they were black if they acted right." They say "I'm not racist, I just see how trashy black people behave, I'm fine with black people that behave right, it's just that most of them don't." I could find examples if you really want, but I don't particularly want to do that research. Everyone that's racist thinks it'…

But isn't racism about prejudice? I'm telling you there's no prejudice with Roma because they look like natives. They are judged 100% based on their actions.

Blacks on the other hand are prejudiced against because you see the colour of their skin as soon as you meet them. Which is the topic at hand: you see an airbnb request from someone who's black, because you see their face in their avatar, and you reject them outright. That simply couldn't happen to Roma. (I'm not sure airbnb has avatars at all because I don't use it, but I imagine the procedure hosts use to discriminate against blacks is something like that)

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#126

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

jacquesm wrote: post #73
raesene9 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they couldn't reliably prove it, but sample based testing + public consequences for those found to be in breach of ToS (e.g. some form of financial penalty) would likely make people who intended to discriminate less likely to use the AirBnB platform.

Maybe. But the more likely outcome is that people will simply continue to do what they do until they get kicked off and that every wanna-be renter of some Airbnb listed property is going to claim 'discrimination' from now on when they are refused.

A careful reading of your phrasing suggests that you're saying that the only people who are refused service from an Airbnb host are also in the category of people whom discrimination laws protect.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#127

Post by calbear81 »

netsharc wrote: post #51
sonink wrote: post #34

Somehow Airbnb mostly doesnt work for me. You find a nice/cheap place to stay, message the host and wait for 24 hours for a revert. Fairly often, the host declines for seemingly specious reasons. The bigger problem is the wait than the refusal. An Indian startup called OyoRooms has a much better solution to this problem.

Are you of a non-preferred race? The few times I've tried it, the host was either non Internet-savvy or seemed to have regretted the too low a price they set, cancelling and putting the place back in the market for a higher price.

When hosts cancel on you, their calendar gets blocked for those dates and a notice is automatically posted to their reviews that they cancelled on a guest. These are there to prevent this sort of behavior you are describing. Hosts that violate these rules frequently will get banned.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#128

Post by 82323823 »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #111
tacunota wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with talking about Roma here is that Americans look at them as the blacks of Europe, which is not the case. There are good blacks. Lot more of good blacks than bad blacks, there's no question about it, and despite the statistics, I wouldn't act threatened around blacks, if I ever visited the US. I live in Southern Spain. Roma live so constrained to themselves they even speak Spanish with a completely diff…

I think it you are not from the U.S. You realize racists in the U.S. consider black people _the exact same_ way you consider Roma? You believe the distinction is that the racists in the U.S. are incorrect in their beliefs, but you are correct in your beliefs? Okay...

What belief? For the non-Roma citizens, literally every interaction they have with a Roma is either a) adolescents trying to scam (or pickpocket) you in the street or b) women begging in the street.

This has nothing to do with blacks at all.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#129

Post by csallen »

gaius wrote: post #114
OliverJones wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What proof?" you ask? Housing antidiscrimination enforcement teams have been highly skilled at gathering this proof for well over a generation and making charges stick. Not sure about this? Ask your favorite search engine to look up "housing discrimination enforcement NYC" for example. If Airbnb were a local chamber of commerce making bookings for bed and breakfast places, it might be valid that they're just a booki…

If AirBnB is able to dictate what it's landlords can and can't do that makes them disguised employees no? Something else the government is good at sniffing out!

No. Most businesses can dictate what its users do and deny them service for refusing to follow rules. This has nothing to do with employee status.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#130

Post by calbear81 »

sonink wrote: post #74
mungoman2 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not familiar with OyoRooms. What is their solution?

OyoRooms is the real Uber for hotel rooms. They take over cheap hotels, brand it and sell on their app.

That's not Uber for hotel rooms. Oyorooms is a budget hotel brand that emphasizes a set standard that hotels that use their brand have to abide by.
Post reply on HN