The bizarre role reversal of Apple and Microsoft • Hacker News Board

Re: The bizarre role reversal of Apple and Microsoft

#171

Post by adt2bt » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 5:11 AM UTC

sahaj wrote: post #41

GVIrish wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unifying to one standard port is kind of cool, except for the fact that not even Apple's other devices use that type of connection and users will have to buy dongles for almost everything. That represents a concrete step backwards in user experience. There is a time to be bold and throw your weight behind a better standard, but there's also a time when doing so makes things inconvenient with little to no benefit. Tha…

The next iPhone will likely have a USB-C port. They couldn't have changed the lightening port on the iPhone after only being on the iPhone for a single generation.

More likely IMO is the next iPhone will have a lightning to USB-C cable.

Re: The bizarre role reversal of Apple and Microsoft

#172

Post by kobayashi » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 5:47 AM UTC

brazzledazzle wrote: post #137

nicolas_t wrote: post #88

The Surface Studio is a major coup for Microsoft not because it'll necessarily sell well (although I think it has the potential to) but because it's made Microsoft cool. I showed the video to my wife and she was so impressed that she looked at all the videos Microsoft did detailing the development. She's been a mac user for more than 20 years and tt's the first time she's ever looked at a Microsoft product. Apple dur…

>the new macbook pro 15 inch design choices are non-sensical for professionals You can't imagine how disappointed I was that they tap out at 16GB of RAM. I don't use that much memory every day but sometimes it would be really nice to have. I haven't bothered watching it again but the announcement gave me the impression that it started at 16 and going to the purchase page was a sad time.

I totally can, as I'm in the same boat. And the 240 CAD increase just for an extra 8GB of RAM - what a ripoff!

Re: The bizarre role reversal of Apple and Microsoft

#173

Post by 58 » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 5:51 AM UTC

pjlegato wrote: post #163

dpacmittal wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Linux as my primary OS since 2009. Not once I had to compiled anything at all. It works surprisingly well with almost any hardware you throw at it.

It's not just hardware support (though even that still requires stuff like editing text files before the GUI will start on certain common machines.) The UX of the GUIs leaves much to be desired - certainly relative to an Apple machine. Linux GUIs were all designed by committee and coded by volunteers, and it shows.

> editing text files before the GUI will start

What text files are you referring to? I've been using linux for 10+ years and have never had to do this.

Re: The bizarre role reversal of Apple and Microsoft

#174

Post by 58 » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 5:56 AM UTC

pjlegato wrote: post #144

kilroy123 wrote: post #118

I keep reading about how unhappy people are with Apples latest reveal. I feel the same way. No way am I upgrading my 2015 Mac Book Pro with the new one. Still, Apple will not change a thing unless people actually vote with their wallets. If you're really so upset, do NOT buy this damn computer! If this latest line sees very little sells, they'll get the idea.

Suppose you need a new computer for work. Your other options are Windows or a Linux desktop experience, both of which are vastly worse in other ways. (No, I don't want to dork around with spending days compiling kernel patches and installing soundcard drivers before I can use the computer.) I'd gladly buy any other laptop that was simple and just worked out of the box in the sense that a Mac does. But there aren't an…

> No, I don't want to dork around with spending days compiling kernel patches and installing soundcard drivers before I can use the computer.

You are badly misrepresenting the current state of mainstream Linux distributions. I've done probably 20 Linux installs, and by and large it always just works. If there is some necessary proprietary driver, it's almost always as simple as Menu --> Administration --> Driver Manager and then clicking once or twice.

Kernel patches? I wouldn't know how the hell to do that, but somehow I've been using Linux happily for a decade.

Re: The bizarre role reversal of Apple and Microsoft

#175

Post by pavs » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 6:14 AM UTC

wsinks wrote: post #123

cmelbye wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Cortana was launched on Windows, I went to a Microsoft Store to try it out. I found a Surface and tapped the Cortana button, and it opened a "Microphone Calibration Setup Wizard" that looks like it was from Windows XP. So yeah, taste is one thing, but execution is a different ball game.

Any thoughts about Cisco? We're literally trying to be the taste and execution. I work for Cisco. Curious about candid thoughts.

ISP Owner here. I wouldn't call their hardware visually appealing. In UI, we mostly use CLI - so not sure what more can be done in that regard. A visual way to looking at live traffic info similar to iftop/htop would be nice.

Re: The bizarre role reversal of Apple and Microsoft

#176

Post by pavs » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 6:25 AM UTC

I don't use apple products because of the shiny, sexy hardware. It doesn't hurt to have a visually nice looking device to look at when you are spending most of your day on it. I use apple computers (don't use iPhone), specifically because of the OS. I just can't see myself working on Windows ever (unless it makes some major leap of improvement).

MacOS has its problems, but its still many time better than the POS Windows OS. The only other option is Linux/Ubuntu, which is nice but wouldn't be my first choice, but definitely a second choice.

You can't cover a shitty OS with a Shiny dress and fool most people who have been burned by it. They can copy all they want, at the end of the day it still has windows installed...

Re: The bizarre role reversal of Apple and Microsoft

#177

Post by doug1001 » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 6:31 AM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #91

MAGZine wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been selling brands for long before Apple has been around. And the "brand," isn't the logo. It is everything that a particular entity means to you, which includes all customer service, sales, advertising contacts. Which includes selling things as a lifestyle. This is marketing 101. I'm not going to pretend that Apple did not significantly influence the direction of product design. It absolutely did. Howev…

Apple absolutely invented competent technology marketing. If you look at the old issues of Byte, you can immediately see the difference. Most of the ads are generic spec/price lists with maybe some crappy hand-drawn graphics. A few are photos and professionally drawn images with some attempts at metaphor, but they invariably look crude, heavy-handed, jokey, or cartoony. The primary focus in the early Apple ads is the…

indeed, i believe Apple invented "competent technology marketing" as well. But to market to a cynical and highly skeptical group, they wisely chose the "inside-out" marketing route. So eg, when addressing a skeptical crowd (eg, developers) and you tell them how great you are, if they listen at all, they'll infer the opposite. On the other hand, if they over-hear one of their own talking about how great is the Mac, they are far more receptive.

Jean-Louis Gassée (head of Mac development and later global head of marketing, '85 - '90) seems to be have been the intellectual force behind this in Apple.

Re: The bizarre role reversal of Apple and Microsoft

#178

Post by blahi » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:02 AM UTC

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #154

bradleybuda wrote: post #43

I'll keep buying Apple hardware (even if the latest rev isn't great) since macOS is the only usable operating system. Windows is (still/increasingly?) a tire fire that's only useful if you're a gamer, and Linux is for programmer-masochists.

Linux is most definitely not for masochists; when did you last use it? Ubuntu, elementary OS, Mint, etc all offer pretty polished user experiences.

I try to install Ubuntu every 18-24 months or so. A problem occurs in about 2 days that I have to google and spend hours in frustrations. No, thanks. 2016 is not the year of Linux on the desktop.

Re: The bizarre role reversal of Apple and Microsoft

#179

Post by kalefranz » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:15 AM UTC

I was actually fine with Apple's "courage" to take away my headphone jack on my phone. But the courage to take away my Esc key crosses the line for me.

Re: The bizarre role reversal of Apple and Microsoft

#180

Post by badminton1 » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 7:19 AM UTC

Apple focused on creating a specific experience.

To achieve that, they started by only targeting specific hardware. Android supports various hardware and so does Windows. Does iOS and macOS do the same? no. Because it would compromise the experience, which is tied directly to the value of their brand, which is ultimately what allows them to price their products the way they do.

Apple focused on creating products people want to buy. I am not from a wealthy country, and I have seen people who have put basic needs aside to purchase an iPhone. For a much lower price you could purchase an Android phone, but they did not care. This is the power of a consistent, pleasant experience, something that Microsoft and Google seek to now obtain through the Surface and Pixel respectively. Let's see what happens.