Powerwall 2 and Integrated Solar • Hacker News Board

Re: Powerwall 2 and Integrated Solar

#91

Post by spectrum1234 » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 5:12 AM UTC

JBReefer wrote: post #61

andrewtbham wrote: post #13

the cool thing is that they look good... they look like a normal roof at the angle you would see from the street in front of the house, but from above... from the angle of the sun they are transparent and you can see the solar cells. I know some rich people that want solar but their neighborhood associations won't allow it, but I don't think they would not have an objection to these roofs. they look really nice.... I…

This product strategy certainly seems easy to copy, I agree. That's good for humanity and bad for Elon financially (I think that's the point for him, I don't think he cares about money outside of more commas).

Honestly though, he is freaking Elon Musk. If you don't think he can make the best version of this you are way underestimating what he has accomplished already.

Its all about fundamentals and he believe he can have a fundamental edge here.

Re: Powerwall 2 and Integrated Solar

#92

Post by intrasight » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 5:15 AM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #66

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you seeing $3000? When I set it to 1 Powerwall it tells me: One 14 kWh Powerwall battery $5,500 Installation and supporting hardware starts at $1,000 Total estimate $6,500 Requires $500 deposit for each Powerwall

Hm for that price I can install a natural-gas generator. Have power for days if necessary, full power on all circuits.

3 of my 4 adjacent neighbors have natural-gas generators. That gives you an indication of the power reliability here. Note that I don't blame the utility, and I'm not in some backwater ($1M+ homes around me). It's just that we really like our trees here, and sometimes a branch will break in a storm and take out the neighborhood.

My gripe with the generators is they are noisy. A Powerwall would be silent and would handle the typical outage situation. But so probably would a 3000VA UPS, which would only cost $1500.

Re: Powerwall 2 and Integrated Solar

#93

Post by conductr » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 5:19 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #78

The thing is cloud-connected, remote-controlled by Tesla. That presents a problem. Will the cloud service behind it last the life of the system? Most cloud services evaporate within five years.

Same thoughts on every IoT, smart, connected, app enabled gadget

Re: Powerwall 2 and Integrated Solar

#94

Post by nickparker » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 5:22 AM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #68

I signed up for the original powerwall and as it turns out it's not Tesla - it's solarcity (I get it, they are the same now). Oh and by the way you have to have the solarcity solar panels installed and running for the powerwall to be installed, which has a cost of it's own. My guess is that this isn't any different given this text: Powerwall 2 is a battery for homes and small businesses that stores the sun’s energy a…

Powerwall makes a whole bunch more sense for solar storage.

If you're just using it for backup power off the grid, you have to convert AC -> DC -> AC again for use. I don't know the all up efficiency of that system, but it's far from great. Probably <70%

Re: Powerwall 2 and Integrated Solar

#95

Post by greglindahl » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 5:32 AM UTC

ifhs wrote: post #8

Brilliant. Can't wait to order one. Wonder when it will ship since I was planning on reroofing next 4 months or so.

Not for a while -- he said next summer, starting in California. And all 4 styles won't be available at start.

Re: Powerwall 2 and Integrated Solar

#96

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 5:39 AM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #66

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you seeing $3000? When I set it to 1 Powerwall it tells me: One 14 kWh Powerwall battery $5,500 Installation and supporting hardware starts at $1,000 Total estimate $6,500 Requires $500 deposit for each Powerwall

Hm for that price I can install a natural-gas generator. Have power for days if necessary, full power on all circuits.

[deleted]

Re: Powerwall 2 and Integrated Solar

#97

Post by rsync » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 5:41 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #78

The thing is cloud-connected, remote-controlled by Tesla. That presents a problem. Will the cloud service behind it last the life of the system? Most cloud services evaporate within five years.

"The thing is cloud-connected, remote-controlled by Tesla. "

If your use-case is backup power in case of utility failure, how does that work ? If utilities fail, the network connection to the battery may also fail, right ?

Re: Powerwall 2 and Integrated Solar

#98

Post by rsync » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 5:44 AM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #70

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm for that price I can install a natural-gas generator. Have power for days if necessary, full power on all circuits.

Which still ties you to the 'grid' insofar as you need the natgas supply chain, even if you have a huge reservoir you'll eventually run out. Having said that, batteries and solar panels don't have an unlimited life span either. I'm looking at buying a petrol powered generator for reasons other than home power generation, but it will be reassuring to know we have backup power at home, but I don't think I'm allowed to…

"Which still ties you to the 'grid' insofar as you need the natgas supply chain, even if you have a huge reservoir you'll eventually run out. Having said that, batteries and solar panels don't have an unlimited life span either."

That is my thought - however, a previous comment in this thread indicates that the powerwall batteries are cloud connected and remote controlled by tesla ... so I am not sure how that pans out when you lose power and network connectivity at the same time (as happens where I live several times throughout the winter, sometimes for 24+ hours).

Re: Powerwall 2 and Integrated Solar

#99

Post by toomuchtodo » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 5:53 AM UTC

seanlinmt wrote: post #82

Is the patent for Powerwall v2 available somewhere as well? As per https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you ? Just windering if it contains enough info for anyone to built a unit themselves.

The software is the special sauce. You could build your own PowerWall easily: it's just a battery box. The battery management system is the hard part.

Re: Powerwall 2 and Integrated Solar

#100

Post by n17r4m » Sat, Oct 29, 2016, 5:57 AM UTC

nickparker wrote: post #94

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #68

I signed up for the original powerwall and as it turns out it's not Tesla - it's solarcity (I get it, they are the same now). Oh and by the way you have to have the solarcity solar panels installed and running for the powerwall to be installed, which has a cost of it's own. My guess is that this isn't any different given this text: Powerwall 2 is a battery for homes and small businesses that stores the sun’s energy a…

Powerwall makes a whole bunch more sense for solar storage. If you're just using it for backup power off the grid, you have to convert AC -> DC -> AC again for use. I don't know the all up efficiency of that system, but it's far from great. Probably <70%

The specs list it as 90% efficiency round trip.