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Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today

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Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today

#91
I picked up a bunch of stuff from school that would perhaps have never fully developed if I hadn't gone there, or if I'd had my own choice of exactly what to do. I would never have chosen to take a history class, and yet in that class I learned critical thinking skills in a way that I would have had no direct cause to do outside of that environment. I gained a basic grounding in science. I learned enough about a variety of different subjects that I was able to make an informed choice on a career path.

I certainly believe that the school system needs changing, particularly as self-learning becomes easier, and I agree that kids need more responsibility (I recall aching for it in my teenage years), but the number of comments here suggesting that school is of no use whatsoever surprises me.

Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today

#92

Not only are kids expected to stay in school until their early/mid 20's, depriving them of necessary real-world developmental experience as discussed in the article, they are expected to accept decades' worth of debt to pay for it. The American education model is poison.

The debt burden for most students in higher education is a major problem. We're almost at the point that getting a college degree is not an economically viable option. This has very bad long term consequences.

Average tuition costs for 2009-2010: http://www.collegeboard.com/student/pay/add-it-up/4494.html

I think at $35k/degree the public university route is probably the most bang for your buck. I wonder how these schools compare to similar state run schools in Europe/Asia.

Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today

#93
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The debt burden for most students in higher education is a major problem. We're almost at the point that getting a college degree is not an economically viable option. This has very bad long term consequences.

Average tuition costs for 2009-2010: http://www.collegeboard.com/student/pay/add-it-up/4494.html I think at $35k/degree the public university route is probably the most bang for your buck. I wonder how these schools compare to similar state run schools in Europe/Asia.

One thing to keep in mind is that around 50% of all students fail to complete their degree in 6 years. We're talking about 4 year degrees here. I believe around 30% never complete a degree. The opportunity cost of getting a degree for many majors makes it, from a monetary point of view, not worthwhile.

If I could do it all over again I would have gotten a two year degree in nursing and been in the workforce at 20. I ended up going to graduate school in mathematics and was in school until 29. I lost 9 years of earnings and my pay as a community college instructor is less than what my nursing friends make. There are other factors to take into consideration but here I'm only considering things from a money point of view.

Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today

#94
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The trick is how to compress the spectrum - incorporate reality into a system built on an ideal." It's actually much, much simpler than that. Schools simply don't give a damn about teaching students about anything- their primary purpose is just to keep the kids in one place all day long. So give the sufficiently motivated/intelligent kids, who have proven that they don't need to be kept in one place all day long, an…

I've seen that opinion here a lot, that school is a glorified babysitting service. Maybe that's true in your experience, but that is a shortcoming of those schools in particular, not of schools in general. I loathe special cases. As a programmer I see them as a sign that program design is flawed. A good program, and a good education system, has mechanisms in place to handle extreme cases. Opt-out is fine for students…

"No alternative?" What about all the stuff that adults do with their lives? Doesn't that count?

Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today

#95
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The debt burden for most students in higher education is a major problem. We're almost at the point that getting a college degree is not an economically viable option. This has very bad long term consequences.

Average tuition costs for 2009-2010: http://www.collegeboard.com/student/pay/add-it-up/4494.html I think at $35k/degree the public university route is probably the most bang for your buck. I wonder how these schools compare to similar state run schools in Europe/Asia.

These numbers are all lies, because they don't take financial aid into account. See, eg. Harvard's financial aid program here: http://www.fao.fas.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k51861&#38...

Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few, true. I almost feel as if we need a return to a semi-apprentice model - for high schoolers, at least: For some of the day, you take classes teaching you theories, history, and so forth. For the rest of the day, you work an apprenticeship at a company. You don't get paid for it; the employer doesn't get that much work out of you; but you apply concepts that you're learning in your classes to what you're doin…

A lot of people do this already. It's called tech school (and optionally, if offered, there are co-op programs). I did both, but was constantly bothered by the perception that tech school is for people who are, basically, to stupid to go to college. You go there to learn a trade. That's fine, since the "trade" I learned was configuring wide-area networks via the CCNA Academy. I think it was really valuable for a lot…

Oh, true. It's very similar to a trade school.

I'm just saying that it should start much sooner. For a lot of people, a part-time job in high school is just for extra cash to see movies. For a lot of the same people, if the school had been a little more involved and had relationships with a lot of local small businesses, they could have apprenticed at accounting, lab/research assistant (at a very basic level, mainly observing) at a local university, etc.

It's a serious shame that tech/trade schools have the stigma they do.

It's also a serious shame that said tech/trade schools typically treat their students as older high school students instead of valuable members of the current/future workforce.

Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today

#97
post #85
post #33

Don't forget there are some positions that require a fair amount of training. I guess if those in school because they're forced go away, it would leave a better environment for those picking up the background for advanced studies. And I see criticisms of the American model of college. Yeah, it pushes a lot of debt on the students but I thought the European model resulted in more years spent in college. There's ways t…

training, not learning. did you read the first paragraph? care to give examples of positions that require learning that isn't actual hands-on training?

Folks with advanced degrees in things like math, physics, physical chemistry, ... Many types of doctors (ie non surgeons), possibly lawyers as people have said that their schooling trains the mind rather than provides "courtroom practice". One can argue that advanced degrees in organic chemistry or biology is "hands on training", but those doing research in reaction mechanisms would probably beg to differ.

Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today

#99
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it's the worlds greatest deception. At 16 I was working as a reviewer, I worked as an assistant (note: not apprentice) electrician for a couple of years doing identical work to my father who was certified (on several jobs he did solely the testing to pass the work as legal) and right now I'm working in windows and siding. I presently earn more than any of my friends, and job prospects still land me at the h…

> I repair and upgrade friends and acquaintances for cash on the side You're an unlicensed doctor too!

Well there's a lot of cuts and scrapes in my work and First Aid training was required, unlicensed doctor was just a natural progression . . . lol no, there was supposed to be a 'computers for' in there, but a lack of proofreading bit me in the ass.

Ironically, my mother was a nurse and I just picked up on how to patch minor injuries up. Nothing sutures better than sterilized royal blue thread in a hurry.

Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today

#100
post #84

I tend to see this type of article and the associated discontent with a protracted adolescence quite a bit on ycombinator, and I can't understand it as of yet. Is their really that much research suggesting that an extended education and a delayed maturation really is detrimental? Or is it more of a shared experiential resentment? Or is it just a resentment at the lack of flexibility and accommodation in our current s…

so you argue that it's okay to FORCE kids through school? i wouldn't have been ready for the world at age 15, but maybe at age 19-20. now i'm 23 and i'm getting sick and tired of university. they don't even try to relate the stuff they teach to any real-world applications. i realize that i've been depressed for a while now. it's affecting me physically now. i can't handle expectations these days. i avoid even thinkin…

I actually have experienced the same depression and listlessness you described, and I imagine a lot of it could be tied to the constant lack of choice and excessive amount of expectations that our current, mill-like educational system forces students through. I definitely agree with you that our system, one that burns so many kids out about caring about anything, needs an antidote. But, along the lines that you said, I don't think that the antidote is necessarily forcing kids to take on full adult responsibilities at age 15. I guess I can see a real-life-buffered educational system that allows for more responsibility and choices without going so far as asking kids to start working full time and living on their own at age 15.
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