George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’ • Hacker News Board

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#391

Post by snickerbockers » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 9:00 PM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #16

He's currently throwing a temper tantrum on Twitter, and all because the NHTSA wanted to ask him a few questions about the product (you can see it here: https://www.scribd.com/document/329218929/2016-10-27-Special... ). Like, how dare the government try to have basic standards for multi-ton hunks of metal hurtling down the highway without human input. I've been trying to convince people lately that Silicon Valley isn…

The problem is that they (Silicon Valley) think the reason their startups move so fast is that they are some sort of new meritocracy, and that other industries move slowly because they're held back by a "good old boys' club" mentality.

The truth is that rapid advancements in software development happen because most software has a failure rate which would be considered appalling in any real engineering discipline.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#392

Post by vtlynch » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 9:01 PM UTC

zeveb wrote: post #376

gavman wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The NHTSA memo seems extremely reasonable to me. If you're going to put to market a product where the smallest malfunction could easily kill many people (both those using your product and those around them), answering a couple regulation questions seems like a small hurdle to pass. Nothing here is saying "we want to shut you down", it's saying "we want to make sure you pass the most basic safety standards".…

> That's an obvious part of a government's duty to keep it's citizens safe. Which article of the Constitution is that? I don't seem to recall it.

You say this in a snide way as if it would be a good thing if governments didn't try to keep us safe.

It also raises the question of what you think the Bill of Right's purpose is.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#393

Post by matt_wulfeck » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 9:02 PM UTC

Thank goodness. It sounds like his grand scheme crumbled under a little scrutiny from a consumer safety organization. We don't need another theranos.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#394

Post by rtkwe » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 9:02 PM UTC

RickS wrote: post #37

Reading the letter seemed somewhat tame until the end - fined $21k/day for noncompliance. Ouch.

It's not really out of the ordinary. The fines provide an actual known incentive to actually respond and not brush the letter off.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#395

Post by andrewhillman » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 9:03 PM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #16

He's currently throwing a temper tantrum on Twitter, and all because the NHTSA wanted to ask him a few questions about the product (you can see it here: https://www.scribd.com/document/329218929/2016-10-27-Special... ). Like, how dare the government try to have basic standards for multi-ton hunks of metal hurtling down the highway without human input. I've been trying to convince people lately that Silicon Valley isn…

I agree. I love how he thinks NHTSA should take a test drive. This is delusional thinking. It's going to be nearly impossible for an SV startup to create aftermarket parts for automobiles because the US dept of transportation is not interested in beta releases. Him being known as an "iphone hacker" probably doesn't help his cause. One accident induced bug could cripple the driver and startup. Sure, SV loves disruption, but the US dept isn't delusional.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#396

Post by debt » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 9:04 PM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #16

He's currently throwing a temper tantrum on Twitter, and all because the NHTSA wanted to ask him a few questions about the product (you can see it here: https://www.scribd.com/document/329218929/2016-10-27-Special... ). Like, how dare the government try to have basic standards for multi-ton hunks of metal hurtling down the highway without human input. I've been trying to convince people lately that Silicon Valley isn…

Yeah because his tech probably can't do 1/5 of what hes claimed it can and the NHSTA would've found that out almost immediately.

this all a pr move by andreeseen/horowitz to pump all their holdings in companies doing selfdriving tech. they prolly knew he'd never succeed.

jus odd to throw in the towel after the gov comes knockin esp after a $3 mil investment like these investors are smart are we honestly supposed to believe they didn't know this was going to happen

eh or maybe $3mil ain't nothing and they's jus threw it at him because jus maybe he could do it if not it's a win win

probably both.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#397

Post by Kadin » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 9:05 PM UTC

lutorm wrote: post #349

mikeash wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much is "a lot"? This seems like a couple of engineer-days if it gets down into the dirty details, which isn't huge. Ironically, if he hasn't done any such testing, the answers would be much easier to generate. "We haven't done any." Not that the NHTSA would take it well....

I could imagine taking a week to do it, and he has 11 days. I've been involved in writing similar descriptions to provide to NASA, and when you get down to exactly how each module works and need to enumerate every branch, it ends up being a lot of work.

He would have had 11 days to produce something. If he'd wanted to play ball, he could have produced something in the way of a response, then waited for a response to that requesting clarification, then provided more information, etc. I've dealt with similar agencies and often as long as you are being cooperative, the "clock" is fairly easy to reset.

It would appear that he didn't have any interest in cooperating at all, though. Which inevitably leads me to wonder if it's not more of a face-saving maneuver; better to blame failure on the pesky regulators than admit your technology isn't up to the investor pitches you might have made.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#398

Post by AceJohnny2 » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 9:05 PM UTC

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #365

kamkha wrote: post #302

Comma's main advantage over Tesla's Autopilot was, as I understand it, the use of cameras to collect video data. Hotz presented that as the advantage at TechCrunch Disrupt, at least, saying that he could beat Tesla's Autopilot because he had full video data from a small smartphone app that he had test users running as they drove while Tesla's vehicles had no video input. I wonder if his choice to cancel Comma is rela…

> while Tesla's vehicles had no video input. This is factually incorrect. Tesla vehicles rely on Mobileye [1] cameras to do its environmental analysis. These cameras come with the processing hardware to analyze the sensor data they're getting, and spits out environmental information that the driver assistance [2] can use to navigate the car. Whether Tesla had access to the sensor data directly rather than just the an…

I should add, by the way, that while Teslas have onboard radar, it is not a primary sensor, but a secondary discriminating sensor.

This was admitted by Musk on Twitter following the fatal crash in Florida: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/748625979271045121

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#399

Post by Kadin » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 9:07 PM UTC

avs733 wrote: post #385

pixie_ wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla probably has a dozen people whose sole job is to interact with NHTSA.

Tesla does, and there has been some back and forth of personnel employment between NHTSA and Tesla as well as both have seemingly intentionally poached from each other.

Doesn't really surprise me. I mean, where else do we expect NHTSA to get people qualified to regulate self-driving cars from? I'd rather they came from industry than just not have any background at all.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#400

Post by webXL » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 9:09 PM UTC

zeveb wrote: post #376

gavman wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The NHTSA memo seems extremely reasonable to me. If you're going to put to market a product where the smallest malfunction could easily kill many people (both those using your product and those around them), answering a couple regulation questions seems like a small hurdle to pass. Nothing here is saying "we want to shut you down", it's saying "we want to make sure you pass the most basic safety standards".…

> That's an obvious part of a government's duty to keep it's citizens safe. Which article of the Constitution is that? I don't seem to recall it.

And this is how "asshole" gets associated with "libertarians". In order to maximize personal freedom, you need property rights and people to enforce those rights. Just because the government's powers have grown well-beyond what's specified in the Constitution doesn't mean it shouldn't have certain powers.