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Eve: Programming designed for humans

programming.witheve.com

91–100 of 401 posts

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#91
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing, Firefox with 960px width (half a 1080p monitor)

Chrome here 1080p at 960px. Ubuntu. http://i.imgur.com/PxLlDkP.png EDIT: Also: base.js:7035 Blocked a frame with origin " https://www.youtube.com" from accessing a frame with origin " http://programming.witheve.com" . The frame requesting access has a protocol of "https", the frame being accessed has a protocol of "http". Protocols must match. EDIT2: Why does opening the chrome console fix the text cut off issue....…

But did your finger get unstuck? Did it get stuck during installing Gentoo? These things happen. Careful.

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#92
post #31

This smells like a game maker app, in the sense that it's hiding "all that messy coding stuff" behind "a simple friendly interface." Programming isn't about syntax. It's about telling the computer exactly what you want it to do, in every possible situation. The hard part isn't the language you use to tell the computer what to do. The hard part is making sure the instructions you're giving match what you want to happe…

Hey Taneq, The fear of over-simplification is totally reasonable. Programs like Game Maker certainly gain their shallow learning curves at the expense of overall power, precision, and depth. We don’t think that tradeoff is acceptable either. Luckily, there is a difference between architectural simplicity and “kid-friendliness”. That’s a big part of why we had to start from scratch and build a new language -- we needed something that was simple from its core if we wanted to make it simple to use without losing expressibility. Rather than rehash the specifics of our architectural decisions (though I encourage you to check out the blog and the upcoming deep dives if you’re interested!) let me describe briefly some problems I don’t have to deal with anymore when I use Eve.

- Asynchrony is pain-free (no imposed cost, no alternative syntaxes, no callback hell).

- Programs are live by default -- there’s no need manually listen for changes all over the place, and no falling out of sync.

- Programs are easily extensible -- because of the above, anything that conforms to the pattern for a block will get picked up by that block.

- Mocks, shims, and other injection patterns are free -- making testing and experimenting very easy.

- Refactoring is trivial -- If a block changes, I only ever need to change its immediate downstream users to get back to a working state. Eve can find those for me.

- Everything is data, so state sharing is trivial. When a coworker finds a bug in my code they can save their exact state and send it to me with a single command.

- The number of classes of bug are drastically reduced. This doesn’t mean they aren’t occasionally perplexing, but because there are so few ways for a program to fail, I can literally run through a checklist of possibilities while debugging. This is the premise that powers the inspector.

This certainly isn’t a complete list, but it’s a few of my favorite quality of life improvements that I think sets this project apart. If you do get the chance to use it, I’d love to hear your thoughts on what works and what doesn’t for you.

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#94
post #75
post #2

Hi All! Many of the folks here have been following us for a long time and we're really excited to finally pull everything together to show you all where our research has taken us. Eve is still very early [1], but it shows a lot of promise and I think this community especially will be interested in the ideas we've put together. As many of you were also big Light Table supporters, we wanted to talk about Eve's relation…

Hi, I apologize if this is off topic but I just thought you should know the site does not display properly in my browser. Maybe this is just an unsupported use case but I think it's because the browser window isn't wide enough so the text on the left gets cut off. I have my browser window filling up half of the screen. EDIT: works now!

It certainly isn't off-topic. There's a lot of UX work to do now that we've gotten a solid foundation out of the way. Finding a good way to pack a solid Eve editing experience into smaller screens is high on that list.

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#95
post #75
post #2

Hi All! Many of the folks here have been following us for a long time and we're really excited to finally pull everything together to show you all where our research has taken us. Eve is still very early [1], but it shows a lot of promise and I think this community especially will be interested in the ideas we've put together. As many of you were also big Light Table supporters, we wanted to talk about Eve's relation…

Hi, I apologize if this is off topic but I just thought you should know the site does not display properly in my browser. Maybe this is just an unsupported use case but I think it's because the browser window isn't wide enough so the text on the left gets cut off. I have my browser window filling up half of the screen. EDIT: works now!

I at least fixed the main webpage's issue with not-quite phone sized screens.

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#96
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing, Firefox with 960px width (half a 1080p monitor)

Chrome here 1080p at 960px. Ubuntu. http://i.imgur.com/PxLlDkP.png EDIT: Also: base.js:7035 Blocked a frame with origin " https://www.youtube.com" from accessing a frame with origin " http://programming.witheve.com" . The frame requesting access has a protocol of "https", the frame being accessed has a protocol of "http". Protocols must match. EDIT2: Why does opening the chrome console fix the text cut off issue....…

Should be fixed, try hard refreshing.

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterpoint: the example of the document containing blocks of code inside what looked more like a word document, to me, exactly explains visually what "designed for humans" means in this context, and I think it's well put.

That's not revolutionary at all. You can do that already with tons of environments. Here's one for Javascript, based on Markdown: https://github.com/jostylr/litpro

Did someone make a rule that everything needs to be a revolution?

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#98
post #96
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome here 1080p at 960px. Ubuntu. http://i.imgur.com/PxLlDkP.png EDIT: Also: base.js:7035 Blocked a frame with origin " https://www.youtube.com" from accessing a frame with origin " http://programming.witheve.com" . The frame requesting access has a protocol of "https", the frame being accessed has a protocol of "http". Protocols must match. EDIT2: Why does opening the chrome console fix the text cut off issue....…

Should be fixed, try hard refreshing.

Fix confirmed!

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#99
post #27

Underwhelming so far. Literate programming sounds good, but sometimes it's too much text and you want to quickly scan a few lines of code and guess what's going on without reading that wall of text. I wonder if this is for regular programming or for occasional programmers (non-programmers really) to try "stuff" out.

Personally I find literate programming helpful not for simple programming tasks, but for really hard ones; if you can quickly scan a few lines of code and figure out what's going on, then you probably don't need it. But if it's the kind of code where I know even future-me is going to have a hard time understanding what I've implemented without copious comments, then I really like literate programming.

And it's more than just a different notation for comments. I find it psychologically elevates the narrative in a way that makes it feel like at least equal to the code in importance, therefore I end up being a lot more thoughtful and deliberate in writing the narrative.

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#100
Seeing Eve's development out in the open is inspiring. Many of the commenters are coming from positions of extreme skepticism towards new approaches to programming, probably justified by the history of the field, but I'd recommend to spend some more time looking into the research idbknox and his team have been conducting (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZQoAKJPbh8, for instance) and how much they have iterated based on user experimentation.

A few questions come to mind now: 1 - This new demo, with the messaging app sample, and references to "my pm wants this or that" seems to point a change in positioning, from targeting non-programmers to professional programmers. Is this accurate?

2 - Is there a plan to integrate the grid-style or the adlibs style UI into this new iteration?

3 - If non-programmers are still a target, it seems to me that the ease of importing data from external sources would important to reach broad usage. Any research here?

4 - Html and css might be a hurdles for new users, any way Eve will help on this front?

(edited for formatting)

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