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Eve: Programming designed for humans

programming.witheve.com

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Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#2
Hi All!

Many of the folks here have been following us for a long time and we're really excited to finally pull everything together to show you all where our research has taken us. Eve is still very early [1], but it shows a lot of promise and I think this community especially will be interested in the ideas we've put together. As many of you were also big Light Table supporters, we wanted to talk about Eve's relationship to it as well [2].

We know that traditionally literate programming has gotten a bad rap and so we laid out our reasoning for it here. [3]

Beyond that, we expect there will be a lot of questions, so we'll be around all day to try and answer them. We'll also been doing a bunch of deep dives over the next several weeks talking about the research that went into what you're seeing here, how we arrived at these designs, and what the implications are. There was just way too much to content to try and squeeze it all into this page.

Also, a neat fact that HN might be interested in:

Eve's language runtime includes a parser, a compiler, an incremental fixpointer, database indexes, and a full relational query engine with joins, negation, ordered choices, and aggregates. You might expect such a thing would amount to 10s or maybe 100s of thousands of lines of code, but our entire runtime is currently ~6500 lines of code. That's about 10% the size of React's source folder. :)

[1]: http://programming.witheve.com/deepdives/whateveis.html

[2]: http://programming.witheve.com/deepdives/lighttable.html

[3]: http://programming.witheve.com/deepdives/literate.html

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#3
I was just listening to DHH's interview [0] on Tim Ferriss's podcast. On the question of beautiful code DHH said among other things "I open up any piece of code in Basecamp and it kind of reads like a great table of contents..." That immediately made me think of the work being done with Eve based on recent screenshots. Can't wait to try it out.

[0] http://fourhourworkweek.com/2016/10/27/david-heinemeier-hans...

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#4
This looks cool! Always like seeing what idbknox comes up with.

I'm still reading stuff, so apologies if this is answered elsewhere, but what is the plan / workflow / constraints to handle prose getting out of line with code? In current software I read / write it's already an issue, I feel like the more you take out of code and put into prose the more this could become a challenge.

I'll keep digging and reading, awesome work!

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#5
Pretty neat (understatement). From a quick glance, blend of notebook/literate with smalltalkish introspection.

Kudos for keeping at the idea for long (I remember when you left LT and talked about possible ideas a while back) and delivering something that simple yet inspiring.

ps: the team bug fixing interactions reminds me of IBM Jazz days, it seemed so heavy, and here it seems so light.

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#7
Sorry, but what about this is "designed for humans"?

What do the keywords mean? What's the language paradigm? Why do I want this when it's essentially coalescing a lot of APIs into a language that you've provided no spec for?

Why would I want my language to work with slack?!

I'm not impressed. It just looks like another functional language with a bunch of addons tacked on to make things "easier" or "for humans".

Drop the buzzwords and get to the meat please.

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#8
This is a neat idea. But I'm wary of the pitch, at least a little. I like to know what my code is doing, at least in general. So when they said "programming designed for humans," that worried me: I don't like magic, that that's usually what "programming for humans" entails.

Re: Eve: Programming designed for humans

#9

Sorry, but what about this is "designed for humans"? What do the keywords mean? What's the language paradigm? Why do I want this when it's essentially coalescing a lot of APIs into a language that you've provided no spec for? Why would I want my language to work with slack?! I'm not impressed. It just looks like another functional language with a bunch of addons tacked on to make things "easier" or "for humans". Drop…

As a counterpoint: the example of the document containing blocks of code inside what looked more like a word document, to me, exactly explains visually what "designed for humans" means in this context, and I think it's well put.
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