One thing I noticed when I went on the employment market for the first time was that I had never had a relationship with an adult other than family or teachers close enough to discuss jobs/money. American middle class children are hermetically sealed in a child's world, with the adult world a bit outside the bubble filled with sexual predators who you can't talk to. That's another flavor of crazy.
Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today
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Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today
#72With more context and eloquence, John Taylor Gatto has been saying this for years: adolescence is artificial, and dangerously so. See his sketch of the future Admiral Farragut, who took his first command at age 12: http://johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/1q.htm ...and of course, Ben Franklin: http://johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/1r.htm
Another big point JTG makes is that the current crop of wealthy producers have no need for 80% of the smart people out there who might get an education. So why not keep them in school and hence not in competition with the established producers, for as long as possible?
I've heard that unions were big proponents of universal compulsory education when it was being introduced. Some say it was for the very same reason.
Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
The other problem is that dumping millions of teenagers into the workforce would decrease wages for older people.
This is only a problem if one assumes labor and wages are a zero-sum game, which I think most people on HN would disagree with.
exactly. any new worker will add to both demand and supply or save his money for someone else to borrow and add to demand.
Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the worst part is that they're piling more and more school on top of the higher performers, depriving them of the chance to explore outside of school. For example, 6 AP courses or start your own business after school? Which one are kids choosing?
You can choose both. The AP courses were nice, and 11 years later I'm making my living running the business.
You can have both, but chances are it's still going to eat into the other activity.
Business is just one thing you could do in the time not spent on advanced courses. It's nice to have the option but it also pressures students towards more curricular learning as opposed to self-motivated learning. For example you could spend 3 hours a day making iPhone apps, or spend that 3 hours studying. Chances are unless you become famous for your iPhone apps, those 3 hours acing your courses will seem more advantageous if you're college-oriented.
You'd be lucky if you're so well as off academically as to have free time and still ace courses.
Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my case: 6 AP courses, start your own business after school, or drop out and start your own business. I like option C.
Or take 3 APs and start your own business at the same time. It's doable if you're motivated enough.
Most things are doable if you're motivated enough. That's not the problem at hand though. The problem is how can we make it easier for students to do what they do best.
I think it's a good idea to focus less on standardized curriculum. For those laissez-faire lovers, standardized curriculum are the equivalent of tight-controlling governments. Some students may need the control, but to those who are self-motivated, a strong regiment just hurts learning.
Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today
#76i don't agree .. teenagers are growing much much faster then before .... and its all because of technology .. the major thing is Internet
Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today
#77I feel this article is worth pointing out as a reminder: Almost all concepts of school reform still takes as a given that you will have basically the same foundation of a school. Sometimes it's worth stepping back and asking, "Does it actually make sense to put all children below a certain age in a big building for the majority of the day, where they spend all their time with other children of the same age, taking cl…
Very few, true. I almost feel as if we need a return to a semi-apprentice model - for high schoolers, at least: For some of the day, you take classes teaching you theories, history, and so forth. For the rest of the day, you work an apprenticeship at a company. You don't get paid for it; the employer doesn't get that much work out of you; but you apply concepts that you're learning in your classes to what you're doin…
A lot of people do this already. It's called tech school (and optionally, if offered, there are co-op programs).
I did both, but was constantly bothered by the perception that tech school is for people who are, basically, to stupid to go to college. You go there to learn a trade. That's fine, since the "trade" I learned was configuring wide-area networks via the CCNA Academy.
I think it was really valuable for a lot of reasons outside of the good, practical training I got: it got me around kids from other schools since it was a tech school for the whole county; I had access to the co-op program to get some real work experience (which I took advantage of); I was being taught by someone who was actually doing what I was learning.
All in all I'd recommend the experience for many of the reasons you cite here.
Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today
#78In the Napoleonic wars, 20 year old Generals commanded armies. Today, Napoleon's military tactics are taught at West Point and other noted military academies. Life expectancy was mid-thirties to forty-ish if my memory serves me correctly. Necessity drives people to do whatever is required to achieve a goal if the need is pressing enough. The notion that young adults aren't able to cope with "real life" (what an oxymo…
Ah, the good old times.
Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today
#79"I never let public schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain ----- At 12 years old my sister and I were "off the dole" as my parents put it. No more allowance, which had topped out at $2.75/wk. If we wanted money, we were expected to use our heads. We ended up mowing lawns, gardening and shoveling after having my mom introduce us to the neighborhood. At 14 I wanted a computer to mess around with. That's f…
I'd like to do something like this when I have kids. However I'm afraid that it's just a reflex against the way I was brought up, way too sheltered and forced to go through school and ignore my real interests. I would just be projecting on my kids what I would've wanted for myself, and that's not good.
Re: Why Teenagers Are Growing Up So Slowly Today
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do Phd's really take that long? I've never know anyone to take more than three years of pure research if they are full time, but this is in the biological sciences or computer science.
Louis Menand's The Marketplace of Ideas ( http://jseliger.com/2010/01/21/problems-in-the-academy-louis... ) discusses time to degree extensively, and the short answer is "yes." The longer answer: I think the average (or median?) time-to-degree for Ph.Ds in the humanities is 9.7 years, while in the sciences it's now hovering around 6 years and trending upwards. Note that this merely measures the time from start to fin…
Added to my wishlist. Thanks.