George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’ • Hacker News Board

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#51

Post by tptacek » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 3:59 PM UTC

probdist wrote: post #47

tptacek wrote: post #29

Here's what the Special Order demanded: 1. Describe in detail how the comma one is installed in a vehicle and provide a copy of installation instructions for the comma one. 2. Describe in detail the advanced driver assistance features of the comma one, including how those features differ from the existing features of the vehicles in which the comma one is intended to be installed. 3. Describe in detail how a vehicle…

They could have asked for George's middle name and the cost of compliance would be burdensome. It is not the rap but the ride that you can't beat.

This list of requests is, for a self-driving car startup, indeed pretty close to simply asking for middle names.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#52

Post by mikeash » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 3:59 PM UTC

singularity2001 wrote: post #48

mikeash wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The letter they received from the NHTSA is available here: https://electrek.co/2016/10/28/george-hotz-cancels-his-tesla... It looks to me to be fairly mild and entirely reasonable. To immediately respond to this letter with "fuck it, we're not going to make this product anymore" is bizarre, and not the government's fault.

You call an out of the blue threat of $21,000 per day (!) 'fairly mild'?

When it's just a request for information and the penalty is if you ignore it? Yes. All they have to do to avoid the penalty is provide the information requested. Just about every government form threatens you with jail time if you lie, for example, and we put up with that.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#53

Post by oh_sigh » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 4:00 PM UTC

losteverything wrote: post #11

What is the role of the national highway transportation safety administration wrt driver less card and trucks? Can they issue rules? Can they prevent deployment? Is it for cars and trucks? Once driverless exists will there have to be a differentiator for auto/truck?

They can issue rules and regulations, levy fines, and prevent deployment on public roads. If you are operating only on private roads(say, a farm, or a mining site), then you are not under NHTSAs purview and can more or less do what you want.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#54

Post by csours » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 4:03 PM UTC

hangonhn wrote: post #25

Wow. If he really moves his project to China to take advantage of a lax regulatory environment even though he couldn't pass the scrutiny in the US, he's being very immoral and cavalier about people's lives in China. I don't understand how a startup like Cruise can get past this regulatory hurlde in the US but Hotz can't.

Programming a neural network to learn to drive is fun; dealing with lawyers is not.

I don't think it is a matter of passing the regulatory hurdle; it's a matter of not wanting to deal with it.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#55

Post by fisherjeff » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 4:05 PM UTC

Phil_Latio wrote: post #38

Analemma_ wrote: post #16

He's currently throwing a temper tantrum on Twitter, and all because the NHTSA wanted to ask him a few questions about the product (you can see it here: https://www.scribd.com/document/329218929/2016-10-27-Special... ). Like, how dare the government try to have basic standards for multi-ton hunks of metal hurtling down the highway without human input. I've been trying to convince people lately that Silicon Valley isn…

Why does he have to answer that. It's just research for now?

My read on this tweet[0], retweeted by Comma.ai, is that they will be shipping an actual product by the end of the year, so I could see why the NHTSA would want answers before then.

[0] https://twitter.com/anakkurt/status/785677337819947008

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#56

Post by asimpletune » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 4:08 PM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #31

j2bax wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on... Hotz doesn't really represent anyone but George Hotz. He is a very unique individual that was blessed with a very mathematical mind but very little social grace.

Sure, but every individual is part of a pattern, and our outgroup is becoming more convinced that there's one pattern in particular at play here. Take a look at the front page of Hacker News right now : in addition to this story, there's "Soylent halts sales of its powder as customers keep getting sick" and "Uber drivers win employee rights case" (presumably over Uber's fierce opposition). With 30 items on the front…

How about just not caring on "correcting" people's impressions of our culture? It seems like it's a challenge any way, probably because it's a fool's errand. Yeah a lot of people who are brilliant don't give af, why get suckered into believing this is a bad thing? In fact, you don't have to have an opinion about it.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#57

Post by Firebrand » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 4:10 PM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #16

He's currently throwing a temper tantrum on Twitter, and all because the NHTSA wanted to ask him a few questions about the product (you can see it here: https://www.scribd.com/document/329218929/2016-10-27-Special... ). Like, how dare the government try to have basic standards for multi-ton hunks of metal hurtling down the highway without human input. I've been trying to convince people lately that Silicon Valley isn…

It's the government that's stifling innovation by burying it with so called regulations to the benefit of the monolithic automotive industry.

His follow up tweets imply he's moving on to China, since they're less likely to be a major hamper of innovation.

And we wonder why the United States' influence is in decline...

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#58

Post by asimpletune » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

May I remind everyone we don't know the full details behind what's going on!

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#59

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #16

He's currently throwing a temper tantrum on Twitter, and all because the NHTSA wanted to ask him a few questions about the product (you can see it here: https://www.scribd.com/document/329218929/2016-10-27-Special... ). Like, how dare the government try to have basic standards for multi-ton hunks of metal hurtling down the highway without human input. I've been trying to convince people lately that Silicon Valley isn…

I tweeted a joke yesterday that the Engineering Society had changed it's slogan to 'Move fast and kill people', I'm pretty happy that NHTSA has its feet solidly planted on terra firma and requires a bit of process around releasing something as important as self driving vehicles.

The more software becomes mission critical the more we will need level headedness and quality rather than tantrums.

Re: George Hotz cancels his Tesla Autopilot-like ‘comma one’

#60

Post by webkike » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #31

j2bax wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on... Hotz doesn't really represent anyone but George Hotz. He is a very unique individual that was blessed with a very mathematical mind but very little social grace.

Sure, but every individual is part of a pattern, and our outgroup is becoming more convinced that there's one pattern in particular at play here. Take a look at the front page of Hacker News right now : in addition to this story, there's "Soylent halts sales of its powder as customers keep getting sick" and "Uber drivers win employee rights case" (presumably over Uber's fierce opposition). With 30 items on the front…

It has definitely been a noticeable problem much earlier than that, my guess probably a half-decade after the dot com bubble burst. I was in school at Palo Alto Senior High School and I gradually began to notice really offensive trends in the way "silicon valley people" acted. When I left school the damage was already done. I remember one of the last examples I saw before college was in a Facebook group called "humans of Palo Alto" (which I objected to from the start), there was a picture of two men in nice clothing holding cardboard signs that said "need venture capital money". Their quote was "you know the Drake song 'started from the bottom now we're here'? Well, that's about us"