Earlier quoted context omitted.
We shouldn't mix up the max skill level with the average skill level. They are very different issues, and different educational systems may optimize for different things. For example, maybe if you are a very good mathematician in the US you can get high-paying jobs for intelligence agencies, data analytics, that sort of thing. But if you are a mathematical genius in another country, maybe they don't have the same job…
To me the state of math instruction is illustrated by a 3rd grade math book, teacher's edition, with the answer key in it. (3rd grade math answers should be obvious by inspection.)
Why Do Americans Stink at Math?
91–100 of 257 posts
Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
We do a great job with the extreme students. The top 5% of private and public schools in the country produce more than enough folks capable in mathematics. It's the rest of the country that struggles. There are a lot of reasons why the US does well in Universities and poorer up until then relative to the rest of the world: 1 - In much of the world, the school you get into matters more than what you did there. (The lo…
Spot on. The US education system is fairly elitist. It supports the top 5% and neglects the lower scoring pupils. That way (and with imported brains), the US can maintain a high level at academia while at the same time affording a fairly bad average education level of the total population in comparison to some other industrialized countries. The university system is also very elitist through student fees, Ivy League…
Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?
#93> Without the right training, most teachers do not understand math well enough to teach it the way Lampert does. My high school math teacher majored in math and then got a certificate in teaching. She wasn't a teacher who was told to teach math among other classes. She knew all the advanced stuff (beyond what a high school curriculum required), she was excited about it, she could explain things in various ways, give…
This is true, for some odd reason, teaching in America is not socially respected institution as much as it is elsewhere. Teaching in Canada is along the lines of nursing or something: it's professional, requires a degree of competence and certification, there is social value. It's not exactly 'doctor' but it's respected for what it is, as it is in most nations. I think it's because people assume American teachers are…
Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?
#94It's an interesting question when you consider that in at least two university mathematics department rankings[1][2], the US holds 7 of the top 10 global spots. One could argue that for whatever reason, many of the professors, researchers and postdocs at those schools learned math in other countries, but, if these lists are to be believed, the US does have the richest mathematics knowledge in the world. So two questi…
"Why doesn't the preeminence of the US math knowledge appear to seep into the primary and secondary school education?" Because preeminence of top tier institutions (which are kind of global centres anyhow) - has absolutely nothing to do with teaching math to the commons. Here's a hint: +++ Americans don't suck at Math +++ There's a very un-PC but very large elephant in the room that people won't discuss. + European A…
> Unfortunately, it's so sensitive few will want to talk about it - for fear that the general public equates educational outcomes to 'intelligence' and try to strongly correlate ethnicity + race to this, which would be fodder for racist/KKK types, which wouldn't really help the overall social situation in America.
Fortunately we have you.
Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Why doesn't the preeminence of the US math knowledge appear to seep into the primary and secondary school education?" Because preeminence of top tier institutions (which are kind of global centres anyhow) - has absolutely nothing to do with teaching math to the commons. Here's a hint: +++ Americans don't suck at Math +++ There's a very un-PC but very large elephant in the room that people won't discuss. + European A…
> European Americans actually do better than Europeans - on average. + Asian Americans to better than Asians - on average. + Latino Americans do better than Central/South American Latinos + African Americans do better than Africans. I've always heard this explained as a sort of "selection bias". Since immigration to the US (particularly for university education) is often seen as desirable, the people who manage to pu…
Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?
#96Might it have something to do with this? https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/majority-of-u... I'm no fan of the American education system, having suffered through it a full 12 years, but I have to believe it's not the primary cause here. Math is hard, and near impossible if you're stressed. I excelled at math, despite relatively boring math curricula. Why? Because I wasn't stressed as a kid, my family was…
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/01/no-...
Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?
#97Other fields deal with concepts more or less mapped to the real world. Physics is about real world, more or less (right until you get to quants, then the level of abstraction rises dramatically). Same goes for biology, and even computer science in general. There, you can rely on words, which usually convey meaning.
In math, you can't rely on words. You'll never understand even relatively simple things like complex analysis or Fourier transform just by reading about it -- words are never enough to transfer the knowledge to you. You need to play with it, solve actual problems, understand in practice how various "moving parts" are related to each other, and then accept the naming convention (which is almost an afterthought, born as a mean of reference, not as a way to describe things). Therefore, relentless practice and solving abstract problems (a lot of them) is the only way to teach (or learn) mathematical concepts.
Some teachers want to make math more accessible with bringing it "down to earth", mapping mathematical concepts to more concrete problems. It is theoretically possible, and I was a supporter of this approach until very recently. However, math just doesn't work this way. Math is pure abstraction; linking the abstractions to earthly affairs too early shuts down mathematical thinking (creates biases that prevents applying mathematical insights to other fields that are different from the one learned).
Mathematical abstractions cannot be transferred by words and formulas alone; they need to be internalized by practice and drilling.
Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?
#98Math is hard work. I was bad at math. I went to college a couple years after I graduated high school where I made little effort to challenge myself. But after figuring things out, at 20 I decided I wanted to do computer science as I enjoyed some of the programming skills I picked up (C++ of all things!). I was very unprepared for the math part of it and it was hard. I tested into a remedial math level and when I look…
Congratulations! I'm always disappointed when people say "some people just can't learn X". It isn't that they cannot learn X, they just cannot learn it in the same time frame, and they shouldn't be expected to!
This is exactly the argument I use when seeing people criticizing or laugh at others over their profession or education. I also think that the time frame one needs to "learn X" greatly depends on what they already know, i.e everyone is born a genius; training is what makes the difference.
[...] and they shouldn't be expected to!. Hats off for this too. Probably the biggest flaw in most of the world's educational systems.
Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?
#99It's an interesting question when you consider that in at least two university mathematics department rankings[1][2], the US holds 7 of the top 10 global spots. One could argue that for whatever reason, many of the professors, researchers and postdocs at those schools learned math in other countries, but, if these lists are to be believed, the US does have the richest mathematics knowledge in the world. So two questi…
I once heard an anecdote that might describe some of what's happening. In the trenches of WWI, when it was time to fight, soldiers would have to climb up a ladder onto a battlefield. The problem was that German snipers could see the tops of the ladders. The Germans would keep their rifles fixed on where they knew the enemy would emerge and simply shoot them down once they saw helmets appear. The European Allied soldi…
Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?
#100The key to math education is practice. Even drilling, maybe. Other fields deal with concepts more or less mapped to the real world. Physics is about real world, more or less (right until you get to quants, then the level of abstraction rises dramatically). Same goes for biology, and even computer science in general. There, you can rely on words, which usually convey meaning. In math, you can't rely on words. You'll n…
However, I do think that examples and applications help a great deal. Sometimes, a mere description of first principles doesn't do it for me, and then, when I see an actual example, I suddenly understand it and the theory along with it.