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Why Do Americans Stink at Math?

nytimes.com

21–30 of 257 posts

Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?

#21

It's an interesting question when you consider that in at least two university mathematics department rankings[1][2], the US holds 7 of the top 10 global spots. One could argue that for whatever reason, many of the professors, researchers and postdocs at those schools learned math in other countries, but, if these lists are to be believed, the US does have the richest mathematics knowledge in the world. So two questi…

My guess is that as with most things people need to feel that what they are learning is relevant. Start teaching finance in high school and math will become a lot more useful, quick.

Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?

#22

Everyone believes they are bad at maths, so they are. It applies just as much to the UK. My youngest believes this strongly, yet when we were quizzing, or helping with homework, she didn't seem to find it too hard, just believed it so. She certainly didn't get those beliefs from home! Looking at my kids maths lessons, especially in late Junior, so much effort was spent to actually hide the maths that I wonder they le…

> Everyone believes they are bad at maths, so they are.

Everyone? I love math.

Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?

#23
post #9

I think it is related to our refusal to embrace the metric system, kids at a young age get thrown off by our archaic system of measurement.

This seems like a real stretch. Why would the imperial system have any bearing on how into math students are?

It just doesn't add up.

Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?

#24

It's an interesting question when you consider that in at least two university mathematics department rankings[1][2], the US holds 7 of the top 10 global spots. One could argue that for whatever reason, many of the professors, researchers and postdocs at those schools learned math in other countries, but, if these lists are to be believed, the US does have the richest mathematics knowledge in the world. So two questi…

We do a great job with the extreme students. The top 5% of private and public schools in the country produce more than enough folks capable in mathematics. It's the rest of the country that struggles. There are a lot of reasons why the US does well in Universities and poorer up until then relative to the rest of the world: 1 - In much of the world, the school you get into matters more than what you did there. (The lo…

> It's a mixed bad in K-12

Your typo is very accurate :-)

I would say that our problem in K-12 is a self-perpetuating one. The teachers were taught math badly and so never really learned it (and learned to hate it into the bargain). So then they teach it badly.

I'm not sure there's any solution except for tuning the students in to Khan Academy and suchlike programs.

Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?

#25
post #11

I found math class stultifying and boring until the focus switched from learning algorithms for computation to doing proofs of relations and concepts. Also I began to discover the actual applications for advanced math, instead of learning it for its own sake. I wish in hindsight that instead of taking endless years of calculus there was a high school version of real analysis, and exercise problems rooted in real-life…

Reading this comment as a programmer, I had the horrific thought that we treat our children the same way we treat our computers: programming them with algorithms, debugging them with failing grades, executing them for test scores. It's barbaric.

Leave the program execution to the computers, give the children critical thinking skills.

Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?

#26
> Without the right training, most teachers do not understand math well enough to teach it the way Lampert does.

My high school math teacher majored in math and then got a certificate in teaching. She wasn't a teacher who was told to teach math among other classes. She knew all the advanced stuff (beyond what a high school curriculum required), she was excited about it, she could explain things in various ways, give analogies, was available after class to ask questions and so on. And that is post-collapse Soviet Union full of corruption, poverty and other crap like that. Surely if we can spend trillions of dollars on F-35 we can get us some good math teachers...?

In this country I see a large disconnect between words "Oh kids are so very very important, they are our future, they can't play outside too far because they will be abducted and we care so much for them" and deeds: I see large classrooms, not enough teachers, teacher are underpaid, not interested in math. Funding comes from local property taxes so rich neighborhood get more money, poor ones get less.

Another thing is I remember teachers were respected. Imagine how we react to someone saying "Oh they are doctor. And then everyone nods, right, they are very successful. Or lawyer, or works for Google and so on". Why isn't teaching like that? My mom tells me someone back home thought she was a teacher, because she at her age spoke some English. And she took it as a great complement. In this country you tell someone you thought they were a high-school teacher and they might get offended. Something is very wrong here...

As for making it more exciting -- initially I studies math by repetition and it worked pretty well for me. I think works because kids are amazing at memorizing stuff. Why not first take advantage of that? Starting them out with set theory sounds all cool on paper that is not how humans learn. Multiplication table, basic patterns, even operations are fine to memorize first. Later on it makes most sense to introduce proofs, word problems (I remember doing lots of word problems, our teachers were crazy for them) and so on.

Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?

#27
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wondered about that. The imperial system is positively awkward. What about other countries that also use the imperial system instead of metric? Are they also behind?

The UK uses their own screwy imperial units for some measures

Not really. You still go to the shops and buy things in litres and kilograms, and their entire construction industry is in metric. The only commercial product that isn't in metric, funnily enough, is beer and cider. I guess getting pissed people to change proved harder than everything else.

Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?

#28
post #11

I found math class stultifying and boring until the focus switched from learning algorithms for computation to doing proofs of relations and concepts. Also I began to discover the actual applications for advanced math, instead of learning it for its own sake. I wish in hindsight that instead of taking endless years of calculus there was a high school version of real analysis, and exercise problems rooted in real-life…

I teach calculus on the side sometimes for beer money (ie. adjunct), and has made me stronger in my long-running feeling that we teach way too much calculus in the STEM fields.

Most people "in the trenches" writing tools that would make use of the fundamentals in their field (either in the physical sciences or engineering disciplines) tend to agree that linear algebra has disproportionately little representation compared to calculus. To be fair, that is somewhat of a downstream problem from mathematics departments, and speaks more about the possibility of stagnation in the undergraduate science and engineering curricula.

fair caveat though: my PhD is in numerical linear algebra...

Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?

#29

If they would teach kids to play with math (or any form of knowledge, for that matter), and not just run through 10,000 rote problems, maybe we'd rank better. Especially word problems -- most of them felt like they were written for students wearing intellectual blinders... if you had any modicum of relevant knowledge outside of the lesson oftentimes word problems were impossible to solve

Could not agree with you more. Another thing I've noticed anecdotally is that many of the math teachers in the secondary system in North America do not have a broad understanding of math themselves. Math is given the most rote treatment of all the subjects, and I suppose this is understandable given the abstract nature of math.

But students are never told why they should care about abstractions in the first place, which is unfortunate. Many high schools simply refuse to speak the students' language.

I suspect this will change in this century. IMO, if a high school really wanted to be progressive, they would totally reform their math curriculum to include more exposure to applied math and computer sciences. Young folks should be using math to build their own Instagram or Minecraft clones that they can deploy to their devices that VERY DAY - using the concepts they've been introduced to in mathematics.

Re: Why Do Americans Stink at Math?

#30

It's an interesting question when you consider that in at least two university mathematics department rankings[1][2], the US holds 7 of the top 10 global spots. One could argue that for whatever reason, many of the professors, researchers and postdocs at those schools learned math in other countries, but, if these lists are to be believed, the US does have the richest mathematics knowledge in the world. So two questi…

I've read (once, somewhere, on the internet) that these types of rankings are also distorted by the fact that in the US the top research institutes are usually teaching and part of a University, while they are not teaching in many other parts of the world.
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