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FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Share Your Data

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Re: FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Share Your Data

#71

Post by Frogolocalypse »

metaphorm wrote: post #26
devindotcom wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to opt in and there can't be a penalty for opting out, the fact sheet says. That said, there may be a bonus for opting in — perks or whatnot. That will have to be settled separately, probably.

it's really hard for me to understand what the meaningful difference would be between penalty for opting out vs. bonus for opting in. don't those amount to the same thing, in practice?

From a purely commercial perspective, opting in allows the company to sell your data. You are, in effect, getting a cut of that revenue.

I'm not sure how you de-incentivise something like that.

Re: FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Share Your Data

#72

Post by Frogolocalypse »

thomasthomas wrote: post #52
hackuser wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are legally empowered by elected officials, just like the police, the courts, the entire Justice Department, military, State Department, NIH, NSF, IEEE (for some things), and many, many more. What alternative is there? Our elected officials can't possibly have the time or the expertise to perform all those tasks themselves.

the difference is the communication act of 1934 essentially lets the FCC create laws whereby the police etc don't have that power. the power to create laws should be held by elected officials imo. the 5 leaders of the FCC get to unilaterally make regulations (laws) that affect every single citizen in america. everything from tv broadcasts to net neutrality

No, it allows them to create regulations within the framework of the act of their constitution. They can't create laws that stop someone fishing for tuna, now can they? This is the same as road/highway authorities being able to set traffic speed zones, food authorities for setting health quality regulations, health bodies regulating medicines, or any other regulatory body.

You don't like it? Get you politician to change/repeal the act. That's how democracy works.

Re: FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Share Your Data

#73

Post by Frogolocalypse »

Spivak wrote: post #53
hackuser wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are legally empowered by elected officials, just like the police, the courts, the entire Justice Department, military, State Department, NIH, NSF, IEEE (for some things), and many, many more. What alternative is there? Our elected officials can't possibly have the time or the expertise to perform all those tasks themselves.

If Congress legally empowered an un-elected five person 'Super Congress' that wielded the power of Congress itself to make laws independently would you feel like your voice at the ballot box was being undermined? I'm not saying the US regulatory agencies are at that point, but I would feel better about them if their power was more directly checked by the Executive branch. Instead of "FCC voted today on a new ISP resu…

> I would feel better about them if their power was more directly checked by the Executive branch.

They can. The executive can always modify or repeal the act that defines their constitution and authority.

Re: FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Share Your Data

#75

Post by pdonis »

Frogolocalypse wrote: post #73
Spivak wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Congress legally empowered an un-elected five person 'Super Congress' that wielded the power of Congress itself to make laws independently would you feel like your voice at the ballot box was being undermined? I'm not saying the US regulatory agencies are at that point, but I would feel better about them if their power was more directly checked by the Executive branch. Instead of "FCC voted today on a new ISP resu…

> I would feel better about them if their power was more directly checked by the Executive branch. They can. The executive can always modify or repeal the act that defines their constitution and authority.

> The executive can always modify or repeal the act that defines their constitution and authority.

Um, what? Once it's signed into law (which the acts that empower agencies like the FCC are), the executive branch can't modify the law at all. Only Congress can. The only thing the executive can do is veto a bill when it comes, to prevent it from becoming law in the first place.

Re: FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Share Your Data

#76

Post by bitJericho »

devindotcom wrote: post #67
devindotcom wrote: post #36

Interestingly there seems to be a loophole in that they can collect the data regardless of consent, but can't use or share it without consent. So chances are this sensitive data will be recorded and put in a database anyway, even if they're not lawfully allowed to look at it without anonymizing first - but a future law could also add an exception, keeping things for law enforcement for instance. I'm triple checking w…

The FCC confirmed that yes, regardless of consent, the ISP can collect 'sensitive' information if it is anonymized/de-identified before use or sharing. The ISP does need to make it clear to the user what information is being collected, but there's no way at present to prevent them from collecting it at all. They're also barred from attempting to de-anonymize the data, though a third party probably could. More info he…

It can be prevented through the use if a secure proxy.

Re: FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Share Your Data

#77

Post by gruez »

NegativeK wrote: post #66
gruez wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>then add an additional $20 charge if you opt-in to the privacy plan probably not a viable option because a VPN offers complete privacy from the ISP, and only costs $5/month.

VPNs are completely out of the question for the vast majority of internet users, who the FCC is mainly concerned about protecting.

How so? They're easy to set up, especially with a compatible router.

Re: FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Share Your Data

#78

Post by thaumasiotes »

bitJericho wrote: post #76
devindotcom wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FCC confirmed that yes, regardless of consent, the ISP can collect 'sensitive' information if it is anonymized/de-identified before use or sharing. The ISP does need to make it clear to the user what information is being collected, but there's no way at present to prevent them from collecting it at all. They're also barred from attempting to de-anonymize the data, though a third party probably could. More info he…

It can be prevented through the use if a secure proxy.

A proxy between you and your ISP? How do you talk to the proxy?

Re: FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Share Your Data

#79

Post by Frogolocalypse »

pdonis wrote: post #75
Frogolocalypse wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would feel better about them if their power was more directly checked by the Executive branch. They can. The executive can always modify or repeal the act that defines their constitution and authority.

> The executive can always modify or repeal the act that defines their constitution and authority. Um, what? Once it's signed into law (which the acts that empower agencies like the FCC are), the executive branch can't modify the law at all. Only Congress can. The only thing the executive can do is veto a bill when it comes, to prevent it from becoming law in the first place.

> Only Congress can.

Sorry, I should have said 'government'. There are three branches of the US government : the legislature, the judiciary, and the executive. You have a say in all of them though. Don't you vote in your congress-people and senators?

So...

They can. The government can always modify or repeal the act that defines their constitution and authority. They're your representative. If you don't like an act, get them to change it.

Re: FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Share Your Data

#80

Post by makecheck »

If the data is collected at all, it can be collected incorrectly (e.g. stored in such a way that it is stolen eventually, “permissions” be damned). Still solving the wrong fundamental issue.

We desperately need to work on reducing the importance of data itself. We must assume by default that all information will be improperly handled pretty much anywhere (or, that the task of keeping it secure indefinitely is just too hard).

That means: data whose usefulness expires extremely quickly (with corresponding protocols), and the complete retirement of stupid bits of information we now carry like social security numbers and credit card numbers that can instantly screw you in the wrong hands. In fact, we ought to have proxies for EVERYTHING; I don’t know why I even have to hand out my home address, for instance, when in theory I could give a company some temporary proxy address that routes to my house only as long as I ALLOW that forwarding; after that, it becomes meaningless and cannot be used for junk mail.

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