Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories • Hacker News Board

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#161

Post by reverend_gonzo » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 12:43 AM UTC

Chinjut wrote: post #102

reverend_gonzo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you ever feel that maybe you shouldn't talk about things you don't understand? Working a prop trading firm is nowhere near "making rich people richer via gambling in the financial markets". Furthermore, the majority of software/engineering jobs out there are not doing "something more beneficial to society". How many companies are really just ad-driven, marketing-driven. Yes, it would be nice if the entire world co…

Who said anything about standard issue ad-driven, marketing-driven software engineering jobs? Wasn't the alternative in this case brain/epilepsy neurology research?

I think everyone would agree that saying "I can't believe you work at Google/Facebook/Twitter instead of curing cancer" would be ridiculous.

Yet, every time finance work is mentioned, someone brings up "I can't believe you work in finance instead of curing cancer."

Guess what? I don't want to work on curing cancer. I used to. I went to school for biomedical engineering and wanted to work on big problems. I realized I would rather do as little work as possible (but still be challenged), and spend time with my family and friends. And I'll happily give money to people to cure this problems.

And those big problems that I wanted to work on before? Well, I'm sure there's somebody that really cares about that. The best way I can help is using my time in ways that I enjoy, and giving my money to those who will actually enjoy finding that cure.

A friend of mine almost died from some disease when she was in her teens. She survived, and is now a researcher for that specific field. She has a personal interest in that research, even if it means she might have to sacrifice other things. And she was also the one who convinced me to bail from the PhD program. She said "if you can imagine yourself doing anything else, do something else."

That's when I realized academic research is long, painful work, but you have to be excited for it. If I'm not excited, I should do something else, and then give money or help increase funding to make it less painful for those who still want to be there.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#162

Post by JDiculous » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 1:07 AM UTC

Analemma_ wrote: post #154

JDiculous wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Academic research jobs, despite poor pay and conditions, are still some of the hardest positions to get. The demand for those jobs far, far outstrips supply. Well that's exactly the problem. We as a society have decided that our brightest minds should be working in finance. I think that's outrageous, and that we should be utilizing their minds for the greater good instead. In other words, we need to increase the su…

> We as a society have decided that our brightest minds should be working in finance "society" hasn't decided anything. Under capitalism, money flows towards where it is allocated most efficiently and gets the highest rate of return, which is apparently to employ researchers in the finance sector. If you have an issue with that, take it up with capitalism. > we need to increase the supply of these research jobs, and…

You're being pedantic. We our the ones who govern ourselves and dictate our own economic system, and this system is responsible for our current situation.

We don't necessarily have to move off capitalism. We simply need to address the flaws of capitalism, say by increasing research funding or not bailing out large investment banks every time they make awful bets.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#163

Post by andars » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 1:09 AM UTC

flourishideas wrote: post #147

T-A wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When I was at Princeton in the 1940s I could see what happened to those great minds at the Institute for Advanced Study, who had been specially selected for their tremendous brains and were now given this opportunity to sit in this lovely house by the woods there, with no classes to teach, with no obligations whatsoever. These poor bastards could now sit and think clearly all by themselves, OK? So they don't get any…

Ideas that generate a breakthrough are the exception not the rule. Sometimes, like in the case of Einstein all the ideas appear in one or two years and then nothing else. Newton with Calculus was another leap. Expecting ideas to appear, no matter what you do, is not a good idea. One difficulty is that is very difficult to estimate the probability of rare events. Perhaps having more free time can increase the probabil…

Einstein spent ~8 years developing general relativity. Certainly not "all the ideas in one or two years".

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#164

Post by user5994461 » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 1:24 AM UTC

JDiculous wrote: post #142

tikhonj wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This question comes up in most discussions about finance and trading. I think it's the wrong question to ask. Academic research jobs, despite poor pay and conditions, are still some of the hardest positions to get . The demand for those jobs far, far outstrips supply. It's hard to get into a decent PhD program and then basically impossible to get a decent faculty position (or join MSR or whatever). Candidates aren't…

> Academic research jobs, despite poor pay and conditions, are still some of the hardest positions to get. The demand for those jobs far, far outstrips supply. Well that's exactly the problem. We as a society have decided that our brightest minds should be working in finance. I think that's outrageous, and that we should be utilizing their minds for the greater good instead. In other words, we need to increase the su…

> our brightest minds should be working in finance

The amount of people who recommend that is staggering.

Lesson learnt: I need to get into finance...

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#165

Post by markkat » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 1:39 AM UTC

seanopedia wrote: post #109

markkat wrote: post #49

I've been in biomedical research for 15 years, and I am leaving the lab atm. Many of my peers are as well. It's not a viable or enjoyable career anymore. Funding is extremely political, and proposal reviews border on arbitrary. Typically, the funding has been decided by seniority and politics, and the review is justification. I imagine that it will get better eventually, but I can't wait for that to come to pass, and…

If you don't mind me asking, are you moving to somewhere in the biomedical industry?

Yes, I started my own company. Doing something that I have wanted to for a while.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#166

Post by IndianAstronaut » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 1:46 AM UTC

JDiculous wrote: post #31

jawilson2 wrote: post #11

I got my biomedical engineering PhD, and was a neurology professor at a top children's hospital doing brain/epilepsy research for a few years. Literally my dream job for most of my life. I left it two years ago due to many of the reasons listed, and got a job going quant/algorithmic trading at a prop firm. I have never been happier, it is a hell of of a lot less stressful, I may actually pay off my student loans befo…

Doesn't it feel like a waste of your talents to have society employing you full-time to make rich people richer via gambling in the financial markets rather than something more beneficial to society? I don't blame you at all (I'm sure your quality of life is magnitudes of order better, and I'd do the same in your position) and this isn't personal at all, it just pains me that our brightest graduates are working in fi…

I was working in an area of cancer research regarding how non genetic traits can be inherited and possibly lead to various cancers.

Now I work on trying to get more clicks to my company website.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#167

Post by kkylin » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 2:48 AM UTC

hprotagonist wrote: post #48

kkylin wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. In some fields, such as mathematics (applied & pure), one can squeak by without a grant, and many do. This has to do with the funding model in different fields -- math departments tend to have enough TA positions to support all their grad students, which lightens the pressure to secure funding. Of course the trade-off is time spent teaching lower-division courses vs actually doing research. As for tenure,…

Like i said. In the physical sciences, you can't do it. Math is not a physical science -- and you can get stunning breakthroughs without anything except a quiet room, a pad of paper, a pencil, and a trash can. (old joke: /s/math/philosophy and remove the trash can!) This is not true if you're a microbiologist.

Yes, that's true -- math is not a physical science in that sense. Though as another poster pointed out, theoretical physics is not so different from mathematics in this way, so perhaps the distinction is more between experimenters and theorists. (However, I've no idea what life is like for theoretical computer scientists without any kind of external funding support.)

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#168

Post by ArkyBeagle » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 3:16 AM UTC

JDiculous wrote: post #142

tikhonj wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This question comes up in most discussions about finance and trading. I think it's the wrong question to ask. Academic research jobs, despite poor pay and conditions, are still some of the hardest positions to get . The demand for those jobs far, far outstrips supply. It's hard to get into a decent PhD program and then basically impossible to get a decent faculty position (or join MSR or whatever). Candidates aren't…

> Academic research jobs, despite poor pay and conditions, are still some of the hardest positions to get. The demand for those jobs far, far outstrips supply. Well that's exactly the problem. We as a society have decided that our brightest minds should be working in finance. I think that's outrageous, and that we should be utilizing their minds for the greater good instead. In other words, we need to increase the su…

We didn't decide it; it just happened. The intro to "The Big Short" covers this quite well - Lewis S. Ranieri, all that.

but what can I say? We're a culture that in 1969 went to the moon, but by 1974/5 we were cutting everything we could.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#169

Post by ArkyBeagle » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 3:21 AM UTC

fsloth wrote: post #58

whenwillitstop wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this thought process is pure brainwashing by the left

Why is wishing for a world where it would be better to help eradicate suffering rather than work to accumulate imaginary play chips bad?

The best ( biggest impact ) ways in which human suffering has been relieved have largely been A Whole Lot about people accumulating imaginary play chips. An example - Alexander Fleming and penicillin - getting penicillin to large scale production and to market was a huge task. Most things are like that.

Re: Young, talented and fed-up: scientists tell their stories

#170

Post by ArkyBeagle » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 3:28 AM UTC

fsloth wrote: post #113

whenwillitstop wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that idea is a fantasy, it has never come to fruition and never will. Progress is made through real incentives. Wouldnt it be nice if nobody stole from eachother? Sounds great doesnt it? Then why doesnt it happen? The play chips are not imaginary, the rich have better lives in almost all aspects.

You are confusing philosophising about a better way to live with knowledge of empirical results in politics and economy. I know very well communism as such does not work, and that at our current stage of development we need prices and markets for resource optimization. And laws and judicial systems and so on. But. The play chips are imaginary. We play by the rules due to convention, not due to a law of nature. The ri…

I hate to bust yer bubble :) , but the Founders were largely deeply indebted aristocrats who felt mostly a slight to their honor. That is largely why the Revolution happened.

The British Empire continued into the "sun never sets" level. The effects of the British Empire on the colonies has been a mixture of good and bad. They thought about it hard, in a John Stuart Mill way about it. They were often wrong, many were horrifyingly venal about the colonies and it all ended soon enough.

The fundamental problem is that the ability of people to be terrible is a real challenge to counter. It's simply not easy. And the classic Conservative trope is that we really don't know how we got here in a comprehensive fashion.

We live in an utterly amazing time.

I'd also dump Maslow soon. There's too much hubris amongst the rich and powerful for it to work well.